A Politician Or A Catholic? Why Not Both?

[immaculata]

[quote] A politician or a Catholic? Why not both?

June 3, 2004

What next? Will we have a political reporter to cover John Forbes Kerry at each Sunday Mass from now to November? Will there be a Holy Communion beat? A wafer watch?

One of the more unseemly stories in recent weeks hovers around the controversy over Kerry and Catholicism. The intra-church debates about whether a pro-choice, pro-civil union Kerry could consider himself a good Catholic have ratcheted up into a public spectacle about whether he would step up to the altar and whether a priest would offer him the sacrament.

The whole thing, fumed Frances Kissling of Catholics for a Free Choice, turned us into a nation of "eucharistic Peeping Toms": "I hope the bishops are satisfied that the sacraments of the church are now the subject of a media frenzy."

Ever since the primaries, there has been a conservative rumble from parish to Web log about whether Kerry is a good enough Catholic to be president. This has turned the whole debate about American Catholics and American politics totally upside down.

Kerry will be only the third Catholic nominated for president. The first, Al Smith, lost all but eight states in 1928. That was a campaign so full of bigotry that opponents sent out postcards of the Holland Tunnel, describing it as a secret passage to the Vatican.

The second was John Fitzgerald Kennedy, who addressed the anti-Catholic prejudice in a campaign speech in 1960 when he said famously, "I do not speak for my church on public matters and the church does not speak for me."

Back then, most Catholics were relieved to break down the stereotypes about them as people who followed orders from Rome and weren't allowed to think for themselves. But in 2004, it turns out, the conservatives in the church are the ones demanding politicians toe the line.

What happened between Kennedy and Kerry was Roe v. Wade. When the church took an absolutist stand against abortion, it took special umbrage at politicians who identify themselves as pro-choice Catholics.

Twenty years ago, the bishops were annoyed by Mario Cuomo and apoplectic at Geraldine Ferraro when she spoke as a Catholic, a vice-presidential candidate and a woman. "I'm a weekly communicant," she says, remembering 1984. "But I have to tell you every time I went up to the altar I was in a little bit of a panic about who might give you communion and who might refuse."

Since then, the church has hardened its stance against pro-choice Catholic politicians, and turned against those who favor gay unions. A "doctrinal note" from the Vatican last year warned politicians not to oppose "the fundamental contents of faith and morals."

Now a church task force is working on guidelines for American bishops on relationships with Catholic politicians. Meanwhile, there are scattered reports of one bishop who told Tom Daschle not to call himself a Catholic and two others who promised to refuse communion to Kerry.

Many theologians tell you that not even the pope can say a baptized Catholic is no longer a Catholic. Many believe it's up to the individual to decide whether to take the sacraments.

But if the church sets up a litmus test for politicians, what about for Supreme Court justices? What about for lay people who dissent?

In polls, Catholic opinions on abortion are in line with the rest of the country. Among churchgoers are those who beg to differ on civil unions or married priests, over abortion or women in the priesthood.

"What do the bishops really want?" asks Kissling. "Would it be a good thing if John Kerry stopped going to mass and communion? Would it be a good thing if Catholics who disagree on abortion not go to church? The churches would be empty. What exactly are they looking for?"

By putting Kerry on wafer watch, conservatives in the church are running the Kennedy tape backward. Ferraro reminds them, "Kerry's not running for pope. He's running for president. There's only one time when we find out if we've done this thing right that we call living. It's when we meet our Maker."

On that day, there will be no reporters on hand.

Ellen Goodman is a columnist with The Boston Globe. Her e-mail address is ellengoodman@globe.com.[/quote]

[BeenaBobba]

Grr. :angry:

The only ones using the Eucharist as a tool are those who have no problem abusing it. If these "Catholic" "politicians" knew anything about Catholic teaching, they'd know that one cannot call themself Catholic if they support something that spits in the face of Catholic teaching (and social justice to boot). As a self-proclaimed child of the Church, Kerry, or anyone else who calls themselves Catholic, shouldn't be the least bit surprised when the Church treats them like spiritual children and reprimands them.

God bless,

Jennifer

[StMichael]

[quote name='BeenaBobba' date='Jun 3 2004, 10:04 AM'] Grr. :angry:

The only ones using the Eucharist as a tool are those who have no problem abusing it. If these "Catholic" "politicians" knew anything about Catholic teaching, they'd know that one cannot call themself Catholic if they support something that spits in the face of Catholic teaching (and social justice to boot). As a self-proclaimed child of the Church, Kerry, or anyone else who calls themselves Catholic, shouldn't be the least bit surprised when the Church treats them like spiritual children and reprimands them.

God bless,

Jennifer [/quote]
The primary problem has been in that area of the world (MA).

The Kennedy's almost single handedly own the church.

One Kennedy family member had a marriage annulled after it existed for 2 children and 27 years.

Ted Kennedy has been pro-choice, had many public instances of infidelity, yet has not been scolded once.

In fact, I believe that the majority of their Senators/ Congressmen are Catholic, but yet they allow their state to pass a law allowing gay marriages.

The erosion of what is to be Catholic started, almost at the same time with the election of JFK, who basically had to pledge that he would not allow the Vatican to guide his decisions and Vatican II.

The democratic party was one where Catholics were able to find help, now we have a foe.

Rumor has it that George W. Bush is going to follow in the footsteps of his brother Jeb and convert to Catholicism.

[BeenaBobba]

[quote name='StMichael' date='Jun 3 2004, 12:14 PM'] Rumor has it that George W. Bush is going to follow in the footsteps of his brother Jeb and convert to Catholicism. [/quote]
Really? That's cool! Where'd you hear that from? If he does convert to Catholicism, I hope that he becomes more pro-life, and I hope that he opposes the death penalty under its current practice in our country. But that would be cool if he did in fact convert.

And I know what you mean. Kerry wouldn't get into office if people didn't vote him there. I live in the most Catholic state in the U.S. (Rhode Island), and I think Gore won Rhode Island in the last election. I can't honestly say I helped prevent that, though, because I voted for him. (I wasn't a serious Catholic when I did, for the record.) There's no way in Hell that I'll be voting for Kerry.

God bless,

Jennifer

[VeraMaria]

[quote name='StMichael' date='Jun 3 2004, 12:14 PM'] Rumor has it that George W. Bush is going to follow in the footsteps of his brother Jeb and convert to Catholicism. [/quote]
what? interesting

all I could find was this:

[url="http://edwardyee.fanworks.net/archives/president_bush_to_convert_to_catholicism.phtml"]http://edwardyee.fanworks.net/archives/pre...tholicism.phtml[/url]

[StMichael]

Saw it on Catholic.com.

The problem we all have is we forgot how to vote for our faith and it's almost like the Superbowl every 4 years. Dems vs. Reps., Reps. vs. Dems. Rah, rah, rah...

But in reality it is US vs. Them.

So, I stay away from the talking heads, avoid reading the hateful text in newspapers (living and working in NYC, that ain't easy), just the facts, thanks. If you vote for something against my religion, then I can't vote for you, because what you do is against my religion.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Why doesn't it surprise me that the Boston Globe wrote this...and that they only interviewed a member of "Catholics" for a Free Choice?

[quote]Many theologians tell you that not even the pope can say a baptized Catholic is no longer a Catholic. Many believe it's up to the individual to decide whether to take the sacraments.[/quote]

I'd like to know the names of these theologians. For all we know, they're a bunch of dissenting nutjobs from places like Georgetown!

[quote]But if the church sets up a litmus test for politicians, what about for Supreme Court justices? What about for lay people who dissent?[/quote]

When will they understand that the same test is applied to all?! It's only to avoid public scandal that certain people's positions with the Church must be announced! ARGH!

[Colleen]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Jun 3 2004, 11:40 AM'] Why doesn't it surprise me that the Boston Globe wrote this...and that they only interviewed a member of "Catholics" for a Free Choice? [/quote]
Doesn't surprise me, either.

[quote]Rumor has it that George W. Bush is going to follow in the footsteps of his brother Jeb and convert to Catholicism. [/quote]
Eh, I don't know. I think that's just a rumor. He seems pretty grounded in his Protestant faith.

[quote]One Kennedy family member had a marriage annulled after it existed for 2 children and 27 years.[/quote]
Question: Was Kerry's first marriage ever annulled? I seem to remember that it wasn't. If that's true, he can be denied communion over that. Then maybe there wouldn't be such a big issue here. I dunno.

[Luthien]

His marriage has not been annulled, no...

[StMichael]

Dog & Pony show.

Kerry has used many things to make himself look "good"

ie: John F. Kerry (JFK), Catholic, etc.

Regardless, this use of Catholicism on his part is little more than a resume booster, he also came out and said he had Jewish Ancestery. Hmm, guess we can ALL say that.

[VeraMaria]

I know he applied for an annullment, but I am not sure if he got one.

[VeraMaria]

oops sorry, this is what happens when i spend 15 minutes reading online about jerry's annulment and THEN post

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote]Regardless, this use of Catholicism on his part is little more than a resume booster, he also came out and said he had Jewish Ancestery. Hmm, guess we can ALL say that.[/quote]

I have Jewish ancestry, actually, and I think that using it to win an election is sick.

You know there was a seminarian at Conception who was 1/16 Cherokee, so he wrote to them and got a scholarship...he didn't need it at all, but some people probably did...I hate that...

It also ticks me off when wealthy minorities win scholarships that should be granted to the poorer people...

[VeraMaria]

He was married for 18 years and had two children, then he divorced her despite her "vehement protests"

"She filed an appeal to Rome and wrote a book, "Shattered Faith," that assails the Church practice."

hmmm, never knew that

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote]Rumor has it that George W. Bush is going to follow in the footsteps of his brother Jeb and convert to Catholicism.[/quote]

I sure think it's curious that his daughter went on the Santiago pilgrimmage.

At least the issue of communion and abortion politics is on the burner. Honestly it seems like in the 80s and 90s, at least from my memory, this really wasn't even being debated. It was all about "conscience" and bishops/cardinals rarely said anything. Thank God for Evangelium Vitae!