Benedict Critiques Francis

[KnightofChrist]

Explosive revelation: Benedict XVI himself sees Francis' restriction of the Traditional Mass for the Franciscans of the Immaculate as a "wound" to Summorum Pontificum
 
A wound, a "vulnus". Could it eventually lead to Summorum's slow demise?
 
In his long presentation of the Bergoglio pontificate so far, Sandro Magister dedicates his space mostly to his words (for good reason). Amidst all words of the analysis, this explosive revelation, very relevant for all Catholics, runs the risk of being left unremarked. We will not let it go unnoticed:
 
But to distance the last two popes are also arriving the facts.
 
The ban imposed by pope Bergoglio on the congregation of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate against celebrating the Mass in the ancient rite has been an effective restriction of that freedom of celebrating in this rite which Benedict XVI had guaranteed for all.
 
It emerges from conversations with his visitors that Ratzinger himself has seen in this restriction a "vulnus" on his 2007 motu proprio "Summorum Pontificum."
 
In the interview with “La Civiltà Cattolica," Francis dismissed the liberalization of the ancient rite decided by Benedict XVI as a simple "prudential decision motivated by the desire to help people who have this sensitivity," when instead the intention made explicit by Ratzinger - expressed at the time in a letter to the bishops of the whole world - was that “the two forms of the usage of the Roman Rite can be mutually enriching."
 

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[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

some branches get cut off, but god can re attach that branch at any time he so chooses. 'St Paul'. Get to love your holy scripture knight. CCC " holy scripture has the power to save."

Edited October 3, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[blazeingstar]

I'm of the opinion that Benedict needs to back off.  Him rebuking Francis is a DANGEROUS road for the the church to go on.

 

Benedict's words come with gravity and should not be made public. 

 

I fear this will be the start of a great schism and that people will say that Benedict was forced underground and is still the true pope.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I'm of the opinion that Benedict needs to back off.  Him rebuking Francis is a DANGEROUS road for the the church to go on.

 

Benedict's words come with gravity and should not be made public. 

 

I fear this will be the start of a great schism and that people will say that Benedict was forced underground and is still the true pope.

 

 

and the weeds will be seperated from the wheat. are you scared of a schism, it's happened before. Like i don't wan't another schism but if i haqng onto the holy mother,the holy sacraments, the holy bible and prayer it will be ok.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Aloysius]

I don't think it's going to come to some great schism... I strongly agree with Benedict here, though there is a complicated history to the controversy in that particular order over the traditional mass and Francis was really just trying to quell that controversy in that particular context,  but the way he did it came down far too much on the side of those in the order who were against the traditional mass, I think...

 

but of course, of all people in the world to be saying it, it makes me nervous that Benedict's saying it, I really don't want a Church with emeritus popes criticizing current popes publicly... but I highly doubt that he wanted this comment to be made public.  even so, even if comments like this pop up from time to time, there is very little chance any significant schism will form... worst case scenario more people go over to the SSPX, I think.

 

Anyway, we will now see how Summorum Pontificum lasts under Popes who are not as enthusiastic about it as Benedict.  Francis won't directly do anything against it, he's said so himself, but it wasn't even being fully implemented by bishops during Benedict's reign so it's not likely to advance under Francis's... but I think it will survive.  Pray, hope, and try not to worry too much.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

worry iz a cause for prayer lol Don't bash your head against the wall praying for your will though, just pray God blesses pope francis and benedict, then pray an our father say a hail mary and she'll be right. and add some praise / a glory be if your tough enough.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[blazeingstar]

and the weeds will be seperated from the wheat. are you scared of a schism, it's happened before. Like i don't wan't another schism but if i haqng onto the holy mother,the holy sacraments, the holy bible and prayer it will be ok.

 

Seriously Tab,

 

I see the schism already.  In my area there are the lukewarm "that 70's" Catholics and the very uptight TLM'ers.

 

Catholic groups are suffering, especially among young adults and young families.  Many no longer feel comfortable in catholic mom's groups and homeschooling groups because of the divide.  So they go to the protestant groups or even just secular groups and only go to church for Mass.  We are called to have fellowship, and I see it being torn.

 

Now, more than ever.

[blazeingstar]

I don't think it's going to come to some great schism... I strongly agree with Benedict here, though there is a complicated history to the controversy in that particular order over the traditional mass and Francis was really just trying to quell that controversy in that particular context,  but the way he did it came down far too much on the side of those in the order who were against the traditional mass, I think...

 

but of course, of all people in the world to be saying it, it makes me nervous that Benedict's saying it, I really don't want a Church with emeritus popes criticizing current popes publicly... but I highly doubt that he wanted this comment to be made public.  even so, even if comments like this pop up from time to time, there is very little chance any significant schism will form... worst case scenario more people go over to the SSPX, I think.

 

Anyway, we will now see how Summorum Pontificum lasts under Popes who are not as enthusiastic about it as Benedict.  Francis won't directly do anything against it, he's said so himself, but it wasn't even being fully implemented by bishops during Benedict's reign so it's not likely to advance under Francis's... but I think it will survive.  Pray, hope, and try not to worry too much.

 

I don't think Benedict had ANY room to speak out against Francis at all.

 

Francis did not go and randomly say TLM is bad.  He has said it has it's place.  It is his job to make sure that tool is used well.

 

The FFI's are one group....a small one at that, no matter their popularity.  A group of very spiritual, amazing young men who are in danger of becoming the next Legionares or SSPX or FXPS or whatever it is.  Their work is far too important to be clouded by what Mass is being said.

 

Francis gave this fairly young group a restriction.  He didn't say they couldn't attend Latin Mass, but only that he doesn't want them saying it.  To me, this is a rather simple request.  It is not that they are in error, but that he wants to make sure they stay within their mission.  I see it more as a loving father  taking the keys from a teen driver for a while to ensure that child is respectful of where he chooses to go.

 

All Benedict's complaints will do is build angst Francis in the Traditional Latin Mass community.

Edited October 3, 2013 by blazeingstar

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

There has always been divide in the holy roman catholic church, take the charesmatic group vs the traditional group, it's usually only some that by into it though, perhaps this time it will be many and we will be left with the protestant converts lol even within the charesmatic movement, some are at odds about whether the spirit comes down or wells up, it's stupid, it does both. :)

 

Edited October 3, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[blazeingstar]

There has always been divide in the holy roman catholic church, take the charesmatic group vs the traditional group, it's usually only some that by into it though, perhaps this time it will be many and we will be left with the protestant converts lol

 

Divides over how to worship and how to live?  Sure.  The Italian Catholics hated the German Catholics who hated the French Catholics who hated the Irish Catholics and the Italians were close to the Pope the Germans had Mary, the French believed that the founded US Catholicism and the Irish celebrated everything, especially St. Patrick. 

 

But at the end of the day they all went to the same Mass.

 

We are now talking about something that is going to cause a huge amount of strain.  Even the charismatic groups still attended the same Mass (then in English).  They may have sang the same songs but the mainstream and charasmatics were not all that far.

 

We are now engaging in a battle over Mass.  This is the center of our faith, the Eucharist.  How Mass is said differs greatly than any previous changes.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Divides over how to worship and how to live?  Sure.  The Italian Catholics hated the German Catholics who hated the French Catholics who hated the Irish Catholics and the Italians were close to the Pope the Germans had Mary, the French believed that the founded US Catholicism and the Irish celebrated everything, especially St. Patrick. 

 

But at the end of the day they all went to the same Mass.

 

We are now talking about something that is going to cause a huge amount of strain.  Even the charismatic groups still attended the same Mass (then in English).  They may have sang the same songs but the mainstream and charasmatics were not all that far.

 

We are now engaging in a battle over Mass.  This is the center of our faith, the Eucharist.  How Mass is said differs greatly than any previous changes.

 

 

If sspx get cut off they get cut off, leave it up to the vatican, don't engage in things beyond your measure, and this is beyond all our measure.

[beatitude]

Hang on, is there any proof that Benedict actually said that? We have no direct quotation and no named source, only, "Visitors said..." This reminds me of tabloid journalism, where unnamed 'sources' are often quoted on celebrity stories, many of them unverifiable and even fabricated by the journalist for the sake of the story. It seems to me as though people who are unhappy with Pope Francis would like to draft in Benedict on their side, regardless of whether Benedict has actually said anything in support of them. Benedict has always come across as quite prudent, and I have trouble believing that he would issue such a statement at a time like this.

 

P.S. And the Rorate Caeli bloggers seem to have an extraordinarily high opinion of themselves, judging by this line: "Benedict's opinion shows that our apprehension and view of the gravity of the matter were, as usual, absolutely correct." It does look as though they would just like to be able to use Benedict's name to rubber-stamp their own views.

Edited October 3, 2013 by beatitude

[blazeingstar]

If sspx get cut off they get cut off, leave it up to the vatican, don't engage in things beyond your measure, and this is beyond all our measure.

 

 

?  What in the world are you talking about.  I'm not "engaging in things beyond my measure"  I'm saying that the problem with the TLM is that it has caused grave division to the point of schism or near schism.  So MAYBE, just MAYBE, Pope Francis knows what the heck he's doing and that Benedict, who has retired and said that he trusted God's will, was completely in the wrong to speak out against a decision Francis made.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

?  What in the world are you talking about.  I'm not "engaging in things beyond my measure"  I'm saying that the problem with the Traditional Latin Mass is that it has caused grave division to the point of schism or near schism.  So MAYBE, just MAYBE, Pope Francis knows what the heck he's doing and that Benedict, who has retired and said that he trusted God's will, was completely in the wrong to speak out against a decision Francis made.

 

 

rebuke ex pope benedict if you wan't to, i'm personally not going there. Leave the vatican politics to the vatican, every lay christian knows that right? or possibly not. Even priests know that, your not a cardinal or bishop, that's how it is unless there is heresy at foot. And there is no heresy here as far as i can see at present, just an opinion. Benedict will be warned if he has done anything heretical.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Apteka]

?  What in the world are you talking about.  I'm not "engaging in things beyond my measure"  I'm saying that the problem with the Traditional Latin Mass is that it has caused grave division to the point of schism or near schism.  So MAYBE, just MAYBE, Pope Francis knows what the heck he's doing and that Benedict, who has retired and said that he trusted God's will, was completely in the wrong to speak out against a decision Francis made.

 

With all do respect, we don't know what Benedict said since we don't have his original words, rather, we have hearsay ("a visitor reported Benedict saying...") And even if it were true, so what? Francis has been publically saying all sorts of things that are very divisive and contradictory.