Guest Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Apteka you're a joke kid....Get off your high horse...lol Go read some wayne dyer books and leave us alone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apteka Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 You aint the boss of me. lol I choose Truth above both your give up and give in world view and Era's I don't really know what he's talking about stuff. It's your church that has given in to the world, Knight What he think if he were alive today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apteka Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 I hope so, I want to believe that is so, much of me knows it probably is so, but he told the interviewer point blank he had no intention to convert him. That's troubling to me. I just think it would be better if the Pope would stop speaking to reporters like this so much and stay more with official pronouncements that cannot be misunderstood so easily. Did you notice how those official pronouncements are very vague? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Aloysius, you are engaging in spin, but like other believers I can't blame you. Some how you must come to terms with what you are reading. He has made multiple statements indicating (1) he has no intention of converting non-Catholics (2) that people are to grow in their own version of good (3) fight their own version of evil and (4) and that salvation is possible by following your conscience. You are well aware that these are novel teachings that would make a man like Pius X role in his grave. I think in the end you will be regarded as the foolish one. Let's give it another ten to twenty, we will see which of us is right. the Pope has said he wants to "evangelize'' people, which he defines as not going at them with the 'intention to convert' but with the intention to bring them to an encounter with Jesus and the Truth. sounds like he wants to convert people, just not by going with an intention to convince. you're taking that one phrase, in which he is obviously trying to draw a distinction between someone talking to someone with some ulterior motive where one is trying to convert them (which is, incidentally, a very annoying aspect of many fundamentalists etc, an ulterior motive that makes their acts of kindness and discussion feel entirely insincere) numerous times Pope Francis has drawn a distinction between what he calls "proslytization" which he continually tries to connect to the idea of ulterior motives that make one's acts and words insincere (because they're crafted with the intention to convince, rather than the intention to love), and what he calls evangelization, which he connects to the idea of getting people to encounter Jesus Christ and be converted that way. you have to look at other things he's said to fully understand what he's trying to say... I'm not trying to agree with the way he's talking here, but it's very clear from many things he's said that he definitely wants people to convert, he just doesn't want to go at them with a prosyltizing intention... and while there are unfortunate ways that's being phrased, that's an entirely good point in and of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I hope so, I want to believe that is so, much of me knows it probably is so, but he told the interviewer point blank he had no intention to convert him. That's troubling to me. I just think it would be better if the Pope would stop speaking to reporters like this so much and stay more with official pronouncements that cannot be misunderstood so easily. honestly when I talk to non-Catholics, I generally try not to have the intention to convert them, that's usually the surest way to ensure you won't convert them, because people can spell insincere dialogue aimed at convincing and are generally turned off by it... even when I'm arguing some point of doctrine or faith, I try to have the intention to sincerely discuss with them, to sincerely show them friendship, to sincerely share my faith... not the intention to convince. it's like something I once heard Penn Jillette say to Atheists, he said not to go out with the intention of converting people to atheism, and he was right, because the minute you have that intention, you start insincerely crafting your arguments towards that, everything they say to you is an occasion for you to come up with the correct counter-argument or response... and in the context of sharing the faith, there's nothing evangelical about that level of insincere prosletysizing argumentativeness... in another homily Pope Francis cites the example of St. Paul in the distinction he draws between evangelization and proslytization... showing how St. Paul went to sincerely dialogue to share the witness of the Holy Spirit, which is exactly what Pope Francis is saying he wants to do. the thing you believe in you should embrace and believe so fully that your sincere dialogue, that doesn't approach things with some ulterior motivation to convince, is a means of sharing that belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I hope so, I want to believe that is so, much of me knows it probably is so, but he told the interviewer point blank he had no intention to convert him. That's troubling to me. I just think it would be better if the Pope would stop speaking to reporters like this so much and stay more with official pronouncements that cannot be misunderstood so easily. We must also see the holy father didn't say he wasn't going to talk to the interviewer about faith,hope and love. He didn't say he wasn't going to talk to the interviewer about morality. He just said it wasn't his intention to convert him, i guess the converting is between the interviewer and jesus'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 It's your church that has given in to the world, Knight What he think if he were alive today? I believe he would also not give up on the Church. He would probably recall the Arian Heresy, that nearly consumed the whole Church, and nearly every bishop, yet the Church survived and bore great servants of God like Pope Pius XII, Saint Pope Pius X and many more. The Church will survive the great heresies and crises it faces today and there will be another Pope like Pius XII one day if Christ does not return before then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) You aint the boss of me. lol I choose Truth above both your give up and give in world view and Era's I don't really know what he's talking about stuff. That's fine. I know what I'm talking about. That's all that matters. If you want to figure it out, you have to listen more, like Pope Francis suggests. Edited October 1, 2013 by Era Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 honestly when I talk to non-Catholics, I generally try not to have the intention to convert them, that's usually the surest way to ensure you won't convert them, because people can spell insincere dialogue aimed at convincing and are generally turned off by it... even when I'm arguing some point of doctrine or faith, I try to have the intention to sincerely discuss with them, to sincerely show them friendship, to sincerely share my faith... not the intention to convince.it's like something I once heard Penn Jillette say to Atheists, he said not to go out with the intention of converting people to atheism, and he was right, because the minute you have that intention, you start insincerely crafting your arguments towards that, everything they say to you is an occasion for you to come up with the correct counter-argument or response... and in the context of sharing the faith, there's nothing evangelical about that level of insincere prosletysizing argumentativeness... in another homily Pope Francis cites the example of St. Paul in the distinction he draws between evangelization and proslytization... showing how St. Paul went to sincerely dialogue to share the witness of the Holy Spirit, which is exactly what Pope Francis is saying he wants to do. the thing you believe in you should embrace and believe so fully that your sincere dialogue, that doesn't approach things with some ulterior motivation to convince, is a means of sharing that belief. This is what I don't get if one is truly trying to bring someone to the Christ or convert them there would be no insincere dialogue, they must be insincere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 That's fine. I know what I'm talking about. That's all that matters. If you want to figure it out, you have to listen more, like Pope Francis suggests. I can't hear you. I can see what you state though even when I'm like wut? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatitude Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Let the spin begin!! Looking at your posts and topics, I see that almost all are about Pope Francis - an unusual preoccupation for someone whose self-description is 'spiritual, but not religious'. I don't know what agenda you have here, but it's obvious that there is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) I can't hear you. I can see what you state though even when I'm like wut? :P That's been known to happen because I am iced out with diamonds and gucci. :icey2: Edited October 1, 2013 by Era Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I am not looking forward to the next round of Assisi meetings. That is all I have to say about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 This is what I don't get if one is truly trying to bring someone to the Christ or convert them there would be no insincere dialogue, they must be sincere*. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Some people may claim they are "sincere" but it ends up sounding like if you don't become Catholic you're going to hell....No one wants to hear that and its not honest either....There's more to it then that....One has to know Catholicism is the truth and reject it before one can tell a person they're going to hell for not becoming Catholic....Its takes a lot more work and effort to get to know someone and show them the love of Christ with actions rather then empty words of tradition and religion.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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