Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Some people need to get their mind off religion to discover the truth. Idols are bad, even idols of Jesus. Religion is feeding and clothing the poor, ministering to the orphan and the widow, etc etc. It is hope, and hope is an action in reply to Gods grace which is love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apteka Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 Some people need to get their mind off religion to discover the truth. Idols are bad, even idols of Jesus. Forsake your idol, Era. Why do you feel you need "Catholicism"? Why do you think you know Jesus of Nazareth? Are you not familiar with textual criticism? You would probably gain more by taking twenty minutes out of your day to meditate silently than reading a saccharine encyclical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Forsake your idol, Era. Why do you feel you need "Catholicism"? Why do you think you know Jesus of Nazareth? Are you not familiar with textual criticism? You would probably gain more by taking twenty minutes out of your day to meditate silently than reading a saccharine encyclical. Jesus meditated too. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apteka Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) Well that is sad. Despite all these crises, and evils facing the Church, I'm not abandoning ship. I simply don't know how to give up and wimp out. Because my faith has always been stronger than my fears. I hope you will return to the Church one day. I hope the leadership in the Church will renew the glory of the Church that has been lost. Knight, you are a sincere believer but you must come to terms that the Church you have in your mind and heart is not the same as the Church that exists. Those above you don't share your views, in fact, they probably lost their faith a long time ago but for them jumping ship is impossible. All they can do is steer what remains of the Church towards what is good, that is, focus on ethical and moral concerns. Open dialogue between peoples, and obviously abandon any notion of converting others. I know you believe, but eventually you must accept reality, because to continue can be delusional. Edited October 1, 2013 by Apteka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Some people need to get their mind off religion to discover the truth. Idols are bad, even idols of Jesus. Tradition cannot have a "hay-day." It simply is. You're still misusing the word Religion. Religion is truth, and Faith is truth. And Religion is Faith, it makes not sense to say forget the one to discover the other. It makes as much sense as saying forget the Christ to discover the truth of Jesus. The real Jesus Christ cannot be an idol, again that makes zero sense. A fake Jesus could be, but then it wouldn't be Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apteka Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 You're still misusing the word Religion. Religion is truth, and Faith is truth. And Religion is Faith, it makes not sense to say forget the one to discover the other. It makes as much sense as saying forget the Christ to discover the truth of Jesus. The real Jesus Christ cannot be an idol, again that makes zero sense. A fake Jesus could be, but then it wouldn't be Jesus. There is no truth, Knight, not in the metaphysical sense anyway. You hold on to an archaic view. Your choice is either to accept a formless Church like Era, or start seriously meditating about where you will go next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I am thankful for God that we finally have a Holy Father who comes from the Jesuit tradition. The two insignia of the Society of Jesus: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 the Pope is not saying he has no desire for conversion, he is speaking against preconceived attempts to convince as the method, arguing for examples as the way to inspire conversion. you can try to call that spin, but it's true, he continually calls for evangalization of peoples, he has said so a few times as pope, in fact, while simultaneously arguing against what he calls "proselytization", which in context is clearly referring to attempts to argue people into conversion rather than meet them where they are, and inspire them through example and dialogue to faith in Christ. that's not to say he's entirely right, but the fact is that Pope Francis has called for evangelization, he has called for bringing people to the Church, plain and simple. I don't like the way he's wording this particular argument because it's easy to take that argument and lose site of the fact that he's called for the evangalization of people to conversion to Christ... but such is life, Pope Francis is not perfect, nor is any Pope. to pronounce the end of Catholicism on the basis of these rather insignificant remarks is rather foolish, and in the grand scheme of salvation history, will be viewed as having been rather silly I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Knight, you are a sincere believer but you must come to terms that the Church you have in your mind and heart is not the same as the Church that exists. Those above you don't share your views, in fact, they probably lost their faith a long time ago but for them jumping ship is impossible. All they can do is steer what remains of the Church towards what is good, that is, focus on ethical and moral concerns. Open dialogue between peoples, and obviously abandon any notion of converting others. I know you believe, but eventually you must accept reality, because to continue can be delusional. Again very sad. I'll not be joining you in giving up on the Faith and the Bride of Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) Perhaps the pope is being cheeky and saying indirectly that it is not he the *actual *converting but our LORD JESUS. lol. Very clever papa, very cunning as a snake but peaceful as a dove. lol Viva La Papa Francois. St francessca cabrini pray for us. St Martin De Porres pray for us. See that, i quoted myself again. :P *actual* that is a little extra i put in after cross examination of my statement. The pope didn't have that luxury did he, we may forget that in this age of media cutting,chopping and editing. :P Edited October 1, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apteka Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 the Pope is not saying he has no desire for conversion, he is speaking against preconceived attempts to convince as the method, arguing for examples as the way to inspire conversion. you can try to call that spin, but it's true, he continually calls for evangalization of peoples, he has said so a few times as pope, in fact, while simultaneously arguing against what he calls "proselytization", which in context is clearly referring to attempts to argue people into conversion rather than meet them where they are, and inspire them through example and dialogue to faith in Christ. that's not to say he's entirely right, but the fact is that Pope Francis has called for evangelization, he has called for bringing people to the Church, plain and simple. I don't like the way he's wording this particular argument because it's easy to take that argument and lose site of the fact that he's called for the evangalization of people to conversion to Christ... but such is life, Pope Francis is not perfect, nor is any Pope. Aloysius, you are engaging in spin, but like other believers I can't blame you. Some how you must come to terms with what you are reading. He has made multiple statements indicating (1) he has no intention of converting non-Catholics (2) that people are to grow in their own version of good (3) fight their own version of evil and (4) and that salvation is possible by following your conscience. You are well aware that these are novel teachings that would make a man like Pius X role in his grave. to pronounce the end of Catholicism on the basis of these rather insignificant remarks is rather foolish, and in the grand scheme of salvation history, will be viewed as having been rather silly I think. I think in the end you will be regarded as the foolish one. Let's give it another ten to twenty, we will see which of us is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apteka Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 Again very sad. I'll not be joining you in giving up on the Faith and the Bride of Church. Your Church has given up on Catholicism. If you continue to believe as you do I expect to see you in a Sedevacantist parish in a short period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) There is no truth, Knight, not in the metaphysical sense anyway. You hold on to an archaic view. Your choice is either to accept a formless Church like Era, or start seriously meditating about where you will go next. You aint the boss of me. lol I choose Truth above both your give up and give in world view and Era's I don't really know what he's talking about stuff. Edited October 1, 2013 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) Aloysius, you are engaging in spin, but like other believers I can't blame you. Some how you must come to terms with what you are reading. He has made multiple statements indicating (1) he has no intention of converting non-Catholics (2) that people are to grow in their own version of good (3) fight their own version of evil and (4) and that salvation is possible by following your conscience. You are well aware that these are novel teachings that would make a man like Pius X role in his grave. I think in the end you will be regarded as the foolish one. Let's give it another ten to twenty, we will see which of us is right. This is your discernment of what the pope has said, and ours is ours. I do hear what you think he is saying though. :) Edited October 1, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 the Pope is not saying he has no desire for conversion, he is speaking against preconceived attempts to convince as the method, arguing for examples as the way to inspire conversion. you can try to call that spin, but it's true, he continually calls for evangalization of peoples, he has said so a few times as pope, in fact, while simultaneously arguing against what he calls "proselytization", which in context is clearly referring to attempts to argue people into conversion rather than meet them where they are, and inspire them through example and dialogue to faith in Christ. that's not to say he's entirely right, but the fact is that Pope Francis has called for evangelization, he has called for bringing people to the Church, plain and simple. I don't like the way he's wording this particular argument because it's easy to take that argument and lose site of the fact that he's called for the evangalization of people to conversion to Christ... but such is life, Pope Francis is not perfect, nor is any Pope. to pronounce the end of Catholicism on the basis of these rather insignificant remarks is rather foolish, and in the grand scheme of salvation history, will be viewed as having been rather silly I think. I hope so, I want to believe that is so, much of me knows it probably is so, but he told the interviewer point blank he had no intention to convert him. That's troubling to me. I just think it would be better if the Pope would stop speaking to reporters like this so much and stay more with official pronouncements that cannot be misunderstood so easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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