Another Pope Francis Interview, Strap On Your Seat Belts!

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Tab'le, the Church is overcome, and if you haven't looked in your New American Bible commentary, we don't know if Jesus even said those words.

 

 

It is words to that effect. Each gospel i think except for one was written down many years after Jesus' death, and written down from word of mouth, and also the gospel that was written by an apostle i think wasn't written immediately after jesus death but alot earlier then the other gospels, but the heart of the matter is in them even if there not Jesus exact words, i believe that they are words to that effect so to speak. So yes, perhaps the gospels in the holy bible are not exactly what jesus said, but perhaps some or most is, i don't know, i think though a statement like "hell will never overcome the church" would resonate and be hard to forget.

 

By the way i don't even know if my understanding of this exact matter is correct. Someone just led me to believe this. Unsure of the churches exact stance on holy scripture.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Era Might]

I agree with most spiritual traditions that the state we are born in is not the state we are intended for. Is there a heaven that bars those who never improve? I'm not sure. Does believing in Jesus of Nazareth automatically save you? I don't think so either. Contemporary Catholicism no longer believes in original sin, sin, or salvation anyway.

 

The church still believes in sin. Just read the Pope's daily homilies. I don't think you need to start from the question of whether there is a heaven that bars those who never improve. Rather, start with the recognition that we need to improve, and go from there. That was the point the Pope was making in his interview. And here's a homily from last week:

 

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/homilies/2013/documents/papa-francesco_20130922_bonaria-cagliari_en.html

 

3. The third thought: today I have come among you; or rather, we have come together, to encounter the gaze of Mary, since there, as it were, is reflected the gaze of the Father, who made her the Mother of God, and the gaze of the Son on the Cross, who made her our Mother. It is with that gaze that Mary watches us today. We need her tender gaze, her maternal gaze, which knows us better than anyone else, her gaze full of compassion and care. Mary, today we want to tell you: Mother grant us your gaze! Your gaze leads us to God, your gaze is a gift of the good Father who waits for us at every turn of our path, it is a gift of Jesus Christ on the Cross, who takes upon himself our sufferings, our struggles, our sin. And in order to meet this Father who is full of love, today we say to her: Mother, give us your gaze! Let’s say it all together: “Mother, grant us your gaze!”. “Mother, grant us your gaze!”.

Along our path, which is often difficult, we are not alone. We are so many, we are a people, and the gaze of Our Lady helps us to look at one another as brothers and sisters. Let us look upon one another in a more fraternal way! Mary teaches us to have that gaze which strives to welcome, to accompany and to protect. Let us learn to look at one another beneath Mary's maternal gaze! There are people whom we instinctively consider less and who instead are in greater need: the most abandoned, the sick, those who have nothing to live on, those who do not know Jesus, youth who find themselves in difficulty, young people who cannot find work. Let us not be afraid to go out and to look upon our brothers and sisters with Our Lady's gaze. She invites us to be true brothers and sisters. And let us never allow something or someone to come between us and Our Lady’s gaze. Mother, grant us your gaze! May no one hide from it! May our childlike heart know how to defend itself from the many “windbags” who make false promises? from those who have a gaze greedy for an easy life and full of promises that cannot be fulfilled. May they not rob us of Mary’s gaze, which is full of tenderness, which gives us strength and builds solidarity among us. Let us say together: Mother, grant us your gaze! Mother, grant us your gaze! Mother, grant us your gaze!

Edited October 1, 2013 by Era Might

[Apteka]

The church still believes in sin. Just read the Pope's daily homilies. I don't think you need to start from the question of whether there is a heaven that bars those who never improve. Rather, start with the recognition that we need to improve, and go from there. That was the point the Pope was making in his interview. And here's a homily from last week:

 

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/homilies/2013/documents/papa-francesco_20130922_bonaria-cagliari_en.html

 

 

 

I respect your opinion Era, personally I don't see anything in Catholicism that can make me a better person, or anything that is essential. Roman Catholicism has imploded, and a dying religion has no say in how I should live.

[Era Might]

I respect your opinion Era, personally I don't see anything in Catholicism that can make me a better person, or anything that is essential. Roman Catholicism has imploded, and a dying religion has no say in how I should live.

 

I think you never understood the church to begin with. You are defining the church by certain outward forms, passing shows, things that are not worth much in the scales of history. But the face of the church still shines with the heart of the Gospel: love, mercy, compassion, witness, striving, healing, discovering. These things are not easy to find...you have to look for them, but they are there. And once you adopt them, they become easier to find, because you carry them to new places they have never been found before.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Era Might

[Apteka]

I think you never understood the church to begin with. You are defining the church by certain outward forms, passing shows, things that are not worth much in the scales of history. But the face of the church still shines with the heart of the Gospel: love, mercy, compassion, witness, striving, healing, discovering. These things are not easy to find...you have to look for them, but they are there. And once you adopt them, they become easier to find, because you carry them to new places they have never been found before.

 

The question is whether the Roman Church understands itself, or even believes in itself. I don't understand why you persist with your attachment to Catholicism, deep down inside you know the reality of things.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

The church still believes in sin. Just read the Pope's daily homilies. I don't think you need to start from the question of whether there is a heaven that bars those who never improve. Rather, start with the recognition that we need to improve, and go from there. That was the point the Pope was making in his interview. And here's a homily from last week:

 

 

 

Most excellent thing i have heard for a while. Fabulous discernment of the popes intentions,with grace i'm sure. God bless you Era Might

Edited October 1, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[KnightofChrist]

"Proselytism is solemn nonsense, it makes no sense. We need to get to know each other, listen to each other and improve our knowledge of the world around us"

For me, and I hope others will not bash me for it, this is most troubling. Converting souls to Christ which is what proselytism is in Catholicism is not solemn nonsense. Converting someone in a truly Christian manner already requires listening and knowing the person whom one is attempting to convert and in doing so converse with. So I don't get it.

"Each of us has a vision of good and of evil. We have to encourage people to move towards what they think is Good."

"And I repeat it here. Everyone has his own idea of good and evil and must choose to follow the good and fight evil as he conceives them. That would be enough to make the world a better place."

I hate to say it be that sounds a lot like or could easily be misunderstood as relativism. Again I'm sorry but this sounds a lot like the 'I'm ok you're ok' talk. People are going to read this in the media and think 'I don't need the Catholic Church or any Church to be saved, what I have is good enough.'
 

"The Son of God became incarnate in the souls of men to instill the feeling of brotherhood."

 
As a secondary reason that could be true or it could also be the effect of the actual and primary reason He became incarnate which was to save us from death and sin.

Your Holiness, you said that you have no intention of trying to convert me and I do not think you would succeed.
"We cannot know that, but I don't have any such intention."

That is confusing and sad, he is either not being completely open about trying to convert him or he really has no intention of converting him which would be very very sad.
 

"The most serious of the evils that afflict the world these days are youth unemployment and the loneliness of the old."

Millions upon millions of youth being murdered in the womb as Church leaders far too often stand by and take no action is a far greater and most serious evil. Unemployment of any group are problems or even evils that must be faced, even the loneliness of the old. But no I must respectfully disagree with the whole of my soul they are not the most serious evils that afflict the world today.

[Apteka]

Knight,

 

I feel bad for you

[Catherine Therese]

Contemporary Catholicism no longer believes in original sin, sin, or salvation anyway.

 

What utter nonsense. 

 

SOME people in our times who have been baptised into the Catholic faith no longer believe in original sin, sin or salvation. 

 

SOME dissenters of actual Catholicism who, in their hubris and/or ignorance declare that they embody "Contemporary Catholicism" no longer believe in original sin, sin or salvation. 

 

 

TRUE Contemporary Catholicism is faithful to the teaching of the Pope in union with the Bishops, exercising their Magisterial office. It is neither LEFT nor RIGHT, neither LIBERAL nor CONSERVATIVE. It teaches TRUTH. And Truth is embodied in Jesus Christ, the second person of the Blessed Trinity, who became Incarnate that He may come to make salvation possible in the face of sin.  

 

And with respect to your "the Church is overcome" comment from earlier, I point to the words of Jesus in the Upper Room: "Take courage, I have overcome the world!" (Jn 16:33) Let the NAB footnotes deny THAT.

[KnightofChrist]

I'm sorry you can no longer call yourself Catholic. I would suggest that you forget about religion for a while and get in touch with the world as it actually exists. Forget about fantasies about some "hey-dey." Just look around you, live, see how people are experiencing the world, and read how Christ walked from city to city, meeting people where they were. Life's too short to get all worked up over fantasies about the past. Christ lives in every corner, even today.

You don't seem to really know what you are talking about. One cannot, well a Catholic cannot separate religion from faith. They are the same thing. Nor can Catholics throwout Tradition (aka "hey-dey fantasies"?).

[Apteka]

 

TRUE Contemporary Catholicism is faithful to the teaching of the Pope in union with the Bishops, exercising their Magisterial office. It is neither LEFT nor RIGHT, neither LIBERAL nor CONSERVATIVE. It teaches TRUTH. And Truth is embodied in Jesus Christ, the second person of the Blessed Trinity, who became Incarnate that He may come to make salvation possible in the face of sin.  

 

You are a believer, and you will force yourself to see things as positive as you can. For myself, I've chosen to get off the sinking ship, and move on.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

That is confusing and sad, he is either not being completely open about trying to convert him or he really has no intention of converting him which would be very very sad.
 

 

 

 

Perhaps the pope is being cheeky and saying indirectly that it is not he that will be doing the converting but our LORD JESUS. lol. Very clever papa, very cunning as a snake but peaceful as a dove. lol

 

Viva La Papa Francois.

 

St francessca cabrini pray for us.

 

St Martin De Porres pray for us.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Apteka]

You don't seem to really know what you are talking about. One cannot, well a Catholic cannot separate religion from faith. They are the same thing. Nor can Catholics throwout Tradition (aka "hey-dey fantasies"?).

 

Knight, some people accept a formless Catholicism to deal with the changes. They are too attached to calling themselves Catholic, despite Catholicism undermining itself before their very eyes. The prudent thing is to accept the reality and move on. Chaos will ensue, but eventually there is light at the end of the tunnel.

[Era Might]

You don't seem to really know what you are talking about. One cannot, well a Catholic cannot separate religion from faith. They are the same thing. Nor can Catholics throwout Tradition (aka "hey-dey fantasies"?).

 

Some people need to get their mind off religion to discover the truth. Idols are bad, even idols of Jesus.

 

Tradition cannot have a "hay-day." It simply is.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Era Might

[KnightofChrist]

You are a believer, and you will force yourself to see things as positive as you can. For myself, I've chosen to get off the sinking ship, and move on.

Well that is sad. Despite all these crises, and evils facing the Church, I'm not abandoning ship. I simply don't know how to give up and wimp out. Because my faith has always been stronger than my fears. I hope you will return to the Church one day. I hope the leadership in the Church will renew the glory of the Church that has been lost.