Pope Assures Rabbi Church Will Not Proselytize

[Apteka]

"[The Pope] stated emphatically that the Catholic Church cannot engage in proselytism."

 

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/francesco-francis-francisco-28206/

[arfink]

"[The Pope] stated emphatically that the Catholic Church cannot engage in proselytism."

 

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/francesco-francis-francisco-28206/

 

Curiously, what Pope Francis is doing with this rabbi is slowly proselytizing him. Sneaky Pope Francis.

[Apotheoun]

I think the pope should be taken at his word.

[arfink]

I think the pope should be taken at his word.

 

As opposed to the words of a rabbi? IDGI.

[Era Might]

late 14c., from Old French proselite (13c., Modern French prosélyte), from Late Latin proselytus, from Greek proselytos "convert (to Judaism), stranger, one who has come over," noun use of adjective meaning "having arrived," from second aorist stem of proserkhesthai "to come or go; surrender; associate with," from proti "toward" + root of eleusesthai "to be going to come," from PIE *elu-to-, from root *leudh- "to go." Originally in English "a Gentile converted to Judaism" (late 14c.).

 

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=proselyte&allowed_in_frame=0

The word "proselytize" is not synonomous with "evangelize." It has overtones of the old wars of religion and social persecution, social intimidation, etc. To proselytize is not much of a marvel. People throughout history have changed their religion for any number of reasons. That doesn't mean they received the Gospel, "evangelized."

[Apteka]

pros·e·lyt·ize

ˈpräsələˌtīz/

verb

1. 1.

   convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.

    

   "the program did have a tremendous evangelical effect, proselytizing many"

   synonyms: evangelize, convert, save, redeem, win over, preach (to), recruit, act as a missionary

 

----------

 

The Church must not seek the conversion of Jews. The covenant between God and contemporary Jewry is still effective. Obedient Jews will make it to heaven outside of the Church and sacraments. Our goal therefore, is to be build bridges and advance dialogue and peace.

[Apteka]

Era, note the listed synonyms in my previous post

[Apotheoun]

As opposed to the words of a rabbi? IDGI.

I suppose the Rabbi could be lying, but it would be a rather foolish thing to do, because Pope Francis could just issue a statement denying what was said in this linked article.

[Apotheoun]

The word "proselytize" is not synonomous with "evangelize." It has overtones of the old wars of religion and social persecution, social intimidation, etc. To proselytize is not much of a marvel. People throughout history have changed their religion for any number of reasons. That doesn't mean they received the Gospel, "evangelized."

Since the Rabbi was talking about evangelization and the Pope indicated that the Church would not proselytize it does appear that an equivalency is being made, but I suppose the Pope could be equivocating - intentionally or unintentionally - and thus causing his Rabbi friend to misunderstand his meaning. It would not be the first time that Pope Francis has said something in a way that is open to multiple interpretations.

[Apotheoun]

I am sure that Roman Catholic bishops, priests, and even bloggers, will be out in force to try and give us all the real meaning of what the Pope said to his Rabbi friend.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Era Might]

Era, note the listed synonyms in my previous post

 

I disagree that the Gospel is about converting anyone from one religion to another. It is about Christ. To evangelize is to announce the good news, which is Christ. To proselytize is to play a power game of religion against religion, which is precisely what got Jews, Catholics, Protestants, and many others killed over the centuries. Europe already went through that game in the 16th and 17th century and came out of of it not stronger in one particular religion, but with a new secularity, which found its way to the United States and created the system we currently live in. The alternative is to go back to the days when people were assaulted, killed, exiled, etc. by violent mobs unless they became proselytes to the dominant religion.

[Apotheoun]

Although some people want to give a negative connotation to the word "proselytize" it does not inherently contain any negative meaning; instead, in the original Greek it just means that a man "comes over" to a new way of thinking and being.

[Era Might]

Since the Rabbi was talking about evangelization and the Pope indicated that the Church would not proselytize it does appear that an equivalency is being made, but I suppose the Pope could be equivocating - intentionally or unintentionally - and thus causing his Rabbi friend to misunderstand his meaning. It would not be the first time that Pope Francis has said something in a way that is open to multiple interpretations.

 

The rabbi used two different words that are not synonymous, and he did so in a paraphrase (in one sentence).

 

 

I spoke to him about evangelization, and he stated emphatically that the Catholic Church cannot engage in proselytism.

 

Of course, I don't expect the rabbi to be attuned to nuance about what it means to be a disciple of Jesus. He is not a Christian. A simple Google search will uncover what the Pope has expressed in the past about evangelization:

 

 

"The Gospel is for everyone, not for some. It’s not only for those who seem closer, more receptive, more welcoming. It’s for everyone," said Pope Francis.

 

http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/pope-francis-the-best-instrument-to-evangelize-young-people-is-other-young-people

 

Edited September 30, 2013 by Era Might

[Apteka]

I disagree that the Gospel is about converting anyone from one religion to another. It is about Christ. To evangelize is to announce the good news, which is Christ. To proselytize is to play a power game of religion against religion, which is precisely what got Jews, Catholics, Protestants, and many others killed over the centuries. Europe already went through that game in the 16th and 17th century and came out of of it not stronger in one particular religion, but with a new secularity, which found its way to the United States and created the system we currently live in. The alternative is to go back to the days when people were assaulted, killed, exiled, etc. by violent mobs unless they became proselytes to the dominant religion.

 

Era,

 

I take it by your words that you don't believe there is such a thing as a true religion, and specifically, that the Roman Catholic Church is the true religion. It seems like you're saying evangelization is a call to Christ, but there is no particular ideology, doctrine, or ritual that one must adhere to. Essentially, the call to Christianity is just making people aware of what is believed, but there is no actual intention of bringing that person to Christ?

 

I hope you can elaborate and or clarify so we can engaged in a meaningful discussion

[Apotheoun]

To evangelize is to make proselytes.