Midwife Nuns

[CatherineM]

My spiritual director is a midwife. Her order has lots of nurses. She's working in an aids clinic in Africa now trying to keep the babies born to infected moms from getting it. She has developed arthritis in her hands so they don't let her midwife any more in fear she might drop a baby.

[Pia Jesu]

Several years ago, I met a Felician Sister (from Poland) who was a certified nurse-midwife.  She was preparing to

go to Kenya.  The community has a sizeable web presence and contacting them might well answer the question about

medical school curriculum/church teachings on contraception, etc.

[Sister Marie]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the above posts but its completely acceptable to learn about something even though one is morally opposed to actually using it and won't once certified.  If you have to have knowledge of birth control to pass a test to do a job there's nothing wrong with knowing it.  If one was required to use that knowledge by prescribing it in order to be certified there would be a problem.  

 

I don't know anything about midwifery but if its an issue of learning about something there is no need for a special program for catholics who are opposed to birth control.  In fact, its good to know the science and facts behind these practices in order to find better ways to help people.

 

I've had to learn all the constitutional law behind banning prayer in schools for my degree program.  Obviously, prayer is a daily part of a Catholic school but I didn't do anything immoral by studying all the reasons why its illegal to pray in catholic school.

[AnneLine]

Really good discussion, and so many good points!

 

I know personally of one community that told the sisters who were studying to be nurses (just 30 years ago) to 'learn as little as possible to pass the test; you'll never use it anyway because we don't do maternity or have the Sisters care for men in our hospital... we have lay nurses to do that.  Learning more about reproduction and/or men well could be a threat to your vocation." 

 

Now, I had objections to that then, and even more now... because you just never know.  You never know when you would NEED that knowledge in an emergency... or when some woman who presents herself for care is REALLY suffering from something that is related to her reproductive system that is presenting in an atypical way.  If God wants someone to be a nurse, I would trust God can care for the Sister's vocation....

 

Having said that... I know people who where trained as secular counselors, and learned all the stuff counselors need to know... and were assured that there were/are/would be exceptions for those with moral scruples against things like clients who wanted referrals for abortions or other issues that for a good reason they were NOT comfortable. 

 

BUT.... since the time their training has finished, laws and ethics have changed... and it is now NOT possible for many counselors in my state to take that stand.  I know people who have decided NOT to get licensed given the current situation.    They are being told to 'fly under the radar', don't make stand until you are licensed, just sign the ethics statement with a mental reservation, don't make it obvious what you are doing or not doing, and do what your conscience tells you.   I can't speak for others, but if it were me, I would not be comfortable with that stance, any more than I would be with 'learn the minimum to get licensed and pray it doesn't affect your vocation.' 

 

In both situations, I would rather NOT practice than have to deal with a huge conflict of interest/values/ethics like that.

 

I can easily see a nurse-midwife in exactly the same situation.   Sad, but true....

[sisleap]

I am a Nurse Practitioner, and although I had to test on the knowledge, I did not have to prescribe or make referrals contradictiory to my faith during clinicals. As an employee and on contract, I always noted up front that I would not prescribe nor make referrals. It is important to need to learn the knowledge, but not have to perform the procedures or prescribe. It would be necessary to know how to remove the IUDs and other implants and handle complications of procedures and prescriptions.

[TheLordsSouljah]

I'm in application with them. I will bring it up next time I talk to them. 

Oooh,exciting!! :) I have actually been considering doing some sort of intensive 6 month midwifery course prior to applying to the SVs. Were you thinking of something similar??

[Antigonos]

Oooh,exciting!! :) I have actually been considering doing some sort of intensive 6 month midwifery course prior to applying to the SVs. Were you thinking of something similar??

 

If you want to do it properly, you MUST have a CNM qualification, and that takes far longer than 6 months.  Sorry, but there is NO way to become a professional--and I'm sure you won't settle for less-- in such a short time.  Sorry, too, to "rain on your parade", but since I am a midwife, I can't be detached about this.

 

Any program which does not lead to a CNM [which is a Masters' degree in nursing] means you ARE DANGEROUSLY undereducated and inexperienced.  Don't be suckered into believing that being a "birth junkie" is the same as being a midwife.  There are two persons' lives at risk in every birth.  For a woman, statistically, the single most dangerous day of her life is the day she gives birth.

 

I should further note that the ONLY midwifery qualification accepted in all 50 states [and Washington,DC], is the Certified Nurse Midwife.  Abroad, the qualification is called by other names, but it is the equivalent.  To be licensed in the UK, for example, you do not have to be a nurse, but the course is 3 years long [it is shorter if you are a nurse]

 

Because the list doesn't let me PM, if you'd like to discuss this further, you can email me at slevami at yahoo dot com.
 

[TheLordsSouljah]

If you want to do it properly, you MUST have a CNM qualification, and that takes far longer than 6 months.  Sorry, but there is NO way to become a professional--and I'm sure you won't settle for less-- in such a short time.  Sorry, too, to "rain on your parade", but since I am a midwife, I can't be detached about this.

 

Any program which does not lead to a CNM [which is a Masters' degree in nursing] means you ARE DANGEROUSLY undereducated and inexperienced.  Don't be suckered into believing that being a "birth junkie" is the same as being a midwife.  There are two persons' lives at risk in every birth.  For a woman, statistically, the single most dangerous day of her life is the day she gives birth.

 

I should further note that the ONLY midwifery qualification accepted in all 50 states [and Washington,DC], is the Certified Nurse Midwife.  Abroad, the qualification is called by other names, but it is the equivalent.  To be licensed in the UK, for example, you do not have to be a nurse, but the course is 3 years long [it is shorter if you are a nurse]

 

Because the list doesn't let me PM, if you'd like to discuss this further, you can email me at slevami at yahoo dot com.
 

My apologies, I definitely should have specified that I meant it for emergencies... Of course not professionally, I know at least for my own Australia the medical standards are so high that my cousin has been studying paediatrics and is still going after ten years of study.  Not that a labour is going to be so fast that we can't get some sort of person around beforehand, I meant more for the circumstances (SVs obviously have heaps of pregnant women around) of emergency. I learned basics in senior first aid cert., but I'd obviously want more than that, hehe. I don't know what courses the US has, but I'm keen to learn more about it than simply first aid level. :) 

peace

[NovemberFourth]

In the UK Nurse training is also a minimum of three years full-time study. Nurses, once qualified, may train as a midwife. For qualified Nurses the Midwifery course is 18 months - although they usually have to have at least a year's experience of working on a ward post qualifying as a Nurse..

I know the above to be true because I am in the last few months of a Nursing Course in the UK and am investigating dual training as a midwife. 

To be trained in the UK as a Nurse AND a midwife you would take five and half years full-time. Maybe four an a half if, in the extremely unlikely event you are able to go straight onto a Midwifery course from Nursing.

Midwives who wish to train as Nurses so they are dual qualified will need to do three years training for their midwifery and another three years for their nursing.

Edited October 2, 2013 by NovemberFourth

[Antigonos]

In the UK Nurse training is also a minimum of three years full-time study. Nurses, once qualified, may train as a midwife. For qualified Nurses the Midwifery course is 18 months - although they usually have to have at least a year's experience of working on a ward post qualifying as a Nurse..
I know the above to be true because I am in the last few months of a Nursing Course in the UK and am investigating dual training as a midwife.
To be trained in the UK as a Nurse AND a midwife you would take five and half years full-time. Maybe four an a half if, in the extremely unlikely event you are able to go straight onto a Midwifery course from Nursing.
Midwives who wish to train as Nurses so they are dual qualified will need to do three years training for their midwifery and another three years for their nursing.

~~~the midwifery course in the UK is one of the best in the world. I know -- I was at Cambridge.

[HollyDolly]

In France there is the Sisters of Catholic Maternity, who I believe are an offshoot of another group founded in the 1800s The Sisters of Our Lady of Maternal Assistance.That's the english translation of their name. I think the original community is still around but rather small.Anyhow they have hospitals etc.They provide medical care, and instruct mothers on how to care for infants, do follow up care etc.Think it's a lovely apostolate. Certainly new parents need advice and help.Maybe such work might prevent these horrible cases of abuse of little ones.

 

[GraceUk]

The Little Company of Mary do nursing and midwifery I think. 

[Nunsuch]

Today, this is not at all uncommon. But, until 1936, it was actually contrary to canon law for sisters to study obstetrics (even in nursing school)--it was considered (believe it or not), a violation of the vow of chastity! Dr. Agnes McLaren a laywoman and convert, began the campaign to change that policy. She was followed by Dr. Anna Dengel, who founded the community that had been Dr. McLaren's dream, the Medical Mission Sisters. Policy was finally changed 8 years after the community was founded--the first doctors (including Dengel, who lived until 1980 and was the first Superior General) were all educated before the community got canonically recognized. This story is told in several histories of the Medical Mission Sisters.