Anastasia13 Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 (edited) My question is where we draw the line. If we keep saying "Just comply. It's for everyone's safety." the government can do whatever it wants, including listening into phone calls, reading emails, watching where you go on the internet, take guns away, etc, all in the name of "safety". I'm not saying there's a right to drunk driving or that we shouldn't pull over people whose driving is looking questionable. But we have rights and they are there for a reason. They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin That is an issue that got even fuzzier with the racial profiling of reputable US citizen's after 9/11. Olive skin or the wrong scripture automatically meant looking questionable. They didn't necessarily have a chance to simply pass airline security as easily as others. "Random" checking at airports was more random when fewer people like that were around. Is showing your license and answering that you were not drinking really violating an essential liberty? Edited September 27, 2013 by Light and Truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 My question is where we draw the line. If we keep saying "Just comply. It's for everyone's safety." the government can do whatever it wants, including listening into phone calls, reading emails, watching where you go on the internet, take guns away, etc, all in the name of "safety". I'm not saying there's a right to drunk driving or that we shouldn't pull over people whose driving is looking questionable. But we have rights and they are there for a reason. They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Do you think a quick stop for a DUI checkpoint is crossing the line? The purpose of that is to prevent DUI related deaths. Is the inconvenience too much for you? I know your question is broad, but the specific circumstance in this thread concerns DUI checkpoints. Like I have said before, if taking a moment to allow the police to question me about alcohol will help prevent the deaths of innocent people, then I will comply. Taking 5 minutes or even 15 minutes out of my day to do whats good for everyone is NOT inconvenient for me. What a nice quote! but again, people DIE from DUI related accidents. People just need to be responsible citizens, stop being selfish, and allow the officerse to do their jobs. Everyone wins. Id rather the headlines be "Irritated man gets stopped for a Negative DUI check" than "A mom and 2 children die from DUI related accident". Which headline would you rather see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 A driver has to stop and answer or show they they are not drunk driving. A disabled woman with a cane and a roller bag has to stop and expose her medications to a store attendant to show that she did not steal. Is the problem the check point or the attitude of the cops? Even if it is the attitude of the cops, it does not excuse having a bad attitude about things. So many people (not just here) hate or greatly dislike cops, but they are among those that deal with some of the ugliest side of humanity and still try to protect people. They are among those that find drug dealers who get their kids high from environmental exposure and put these dealers into jail. They are among those that deal with gory murder scenes and arrest people willingly endanger themselves and others. No one makes them get up every day to do a job that sometimes risks their own lives to do things like that any more than you are faced with the obligation to do your own career. Can we maybe have a little compassion and if needed try too solve the problem instead of just saying that x or y are jerks? I agree with you that cops deal with some of the ugliest stuff and have a great responsibility, and i'm no cop hater. But verabl abuse on the Job from a cop doesn't help there plight as law enforcement members of the community with a great responsibility, more responsibility then most. I know neither of those cops verbally abused that guy, if i where a cop i would hope i wouldn't even verbally abuse someone back that was being a smart ass whether criminal or not. I was threatened by a cop when i was 17 that he would go toe toe with me in the cell when we got to the jail and i had done nothing seriously wrong except be a bit of a smart ass verbaly, which i don't make common practice any time, but i was under the influence and i told him i was and gave him my paraphernalia and after all that he used excessive force on someone whom wasn't resisting arrest and on top of it threated to go toe to toe in the cell with me which we all know what that means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 (edited) Do you think a quick stop for a DUI checkpoint is crossing the line? The purpose of that is to prevent DUI related deaths. Is the inconvenience too much for you? I know your question is broad, but the specific circumstance in this thread concerns DUI checkpoints. Like I have said before, if taking a moment to allow the police to question me about alcohol will help prevent the deaths of innocent people, then I will comply. Taking 5 minutes or even 15 minutes out of my day to do whats good for everyone is NOT inconvenient for me. What a nice quote! but again, people DIE from DUI related accidents. People just need to be responsible citizens, stop being selfish, and allow the officerse to do their jobs. Everyone wins. Id rather the headlines be "Irritated man gets stopped for a Negative DUI check" than "A mom and 2 children die from DUI related accident". Which headline would you rather see? I think the intention of the post is more than d.u.i checkpoints, it is more to do with the rites of the citizens of the u.s.a , forgive me if i'm wrong. Edited September 27, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Why is this thread in Open Mic when it appears to be a debate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Why is this thread in Open Mic when it appears to be a debate? I think because the debate table is for more religious and spiritual debate, i think there are regular debates held in the open mic on other matters. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 (edited) I agree with you that cops deal with some of the ugliest stuff and have a great responsibility, and i'm no cop hater. But verabl abuse on the Job from a cop doesn't help there plight as law enforcement members of the community with a great responsibility, more responsibility then most. I know neither of those cops verbally abused that guy, if i where a cop i would hope i wouldn't even verbally abuse someone back that was being a smart ass whether criminal or not. I was threatened by a cop when i was 17 that he would go toe toe with me in the cell when we got to the jail and i had done nothing seriously wrong except be a bit of a smart ass verbaly, which i don't make common practice any time, but i was under the influence and i told him i was and gave him my paraphernalia and after all that he used excessive force on someone whom wasn't resisting arrest and on top of it threated to go toe to toe in the cell with me which we all know what that means. Under the influence and a smart ass: Experience is a good teacher, no? Did you seek parental or legal council for your situation when this happened or quickly after? Edited September 27, 2013 by Light and Truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I hope you respect everyone Nihil. Just because someone works at a grocery store doesnt mean they deserve less respect or you can shrug them off. If someone asks for my receipt at the grocery store I dont throw my hands up in the air and start screaming about suspicion of a crime rofl, I show them the beaver dam receipt. That has very little - if anything - to do with my post you quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Under the influence and a smart ass: Experience is a good teacher, no? Did you seek parental or legal council for your situation when this happened or quickly after? No i let it go because they let me go and the police did nothing else to me. Supposedly the friend that was with me got anal cavity searched though and he was black, unsure if that had anything to do with it and/or whether he was just saying that happened to big note himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 DUI checker: typically speaking, no one forces any of us to get behind the wheel of a car. Door checker: typically speaking, no one forces us to go to a certain store. Can driving make our lives easier? Yes. Can shopping at a bulk discount store make our lives easier? Yes. Leave aside checkpoints for a moment. Can you choose not to associate with the police? Can you choose not to associate with the bag checker at Costco? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Do you think a quick stop for a DUI checkpoint is crossing the line? The purpose of that is to prevent DUI related deaths. Is the inconvenience too much for you? I know your question is broad, but the specific circumstance in this thread concerns DUI checkpoints. Like I have said before, if taking a moment to allow the police to question me about alcohol will help prevent the deaths of innocent people, then I will comply. Taking 5 minutes or even 15 minutes out of my day to do whats good for everyone is NOT inconvenient for me. What a nice quote! but again, people DIE from DUI related accidents. People just need to be responsible citizens, stop being selfish, and allow the officerse to do their jobs. Everyone wins. Id rather the headlines be "Irritated man gets stopped for a Negative DUI check" than "A mom and 2 children die from DUI related accident". Which headline would you rather see? I wouldn't have an issue with stopping for a few minutes. But it needs to be revised a bit, because as Apotheoun says, it's never just a "few minutes". This also doesn't account for the fact that sometimes cops can just be jackasses when they pull you over. I understand that people die from DUI-related accidents. I'd rather not have anyone die. But I take issue with the fact that you are saying people don't want to be pulled over because they are selfish. If that's why they didn't want DUI checkpoints, I'd be with you. But that is not why many do not want to be stopped at DUI checkpoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 That has very little - if anything - to do with my post you quoted. I realize I read your post wrong initially, sorry! :hehe2: But the fact still remains. Asking for receipts could potentially be treated similarly..afterall you could accuse them of suspecting you of shoplifting. But do they really have the right to do that? However it happens all the time and people never freak out...at least decent people I suppose. Do you often refuse to talk to grocery clerks? I find that extremely rude. I have had multiple jobs working in the retail business and I can assure you that kindness goes a long way from customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I realize I read your post wrong initially, sorry! :hehe2: But the fact still remains. Asking for receipts could potentially be treated similarly..afterall you could accuse them of suspecting you of shoplifting. But do they really have the right to do that? However it happens all the time and people never freak out...at least decent people I suppose. Do you often refuse to talk to grocery clerks? I find that extremely rude. I have had multiple jobs working in the retail business and I can assure you that kindness goes a long way from customers. There's a difference with this store analogy. A store is privately owned and cannot run your life. If one store has really strict policies and you don't like it, you can go to another with less policies. You can't do that with the government. I'm not saying DUI-checkpoints are the Devil, I'm simply stating the analogy you are using fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Leave aside checkpoints for a moment. Can you choose not to associate with the police? Can you choose not to associate with the bag checker at Costco? Usually I don't associate with the police. I could probably claim the 5th amendment to not answer questions. If they had to search my home or something, that would probably be through a search warrant obtained not simply through police but through a judge. Similar things could happen with the FBI, border patrol if I lived in the wrong neighborhood (and sometimes the alternative to neighborhood A is living on the streets), the CIA, IRS (better have a low audit chance on your taxes!), etc. Am I to take issue with the entire justice system and possibly then some? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 (edited) http://www.wikihow.com/Start-Your-Own-Country http://micronations.webs.com/ Edited September 27, 2013 by Light and Truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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