Byzantine Rite

[Fides_et_Ratio]

I wasn't sure if this was the proper forum for this, but if not perhaps an admin can move it.


Does anyone have any good sites/good places to get information about the Byzantine Rite? 2 priests have suggested that I "change rites" now and I figure I should be cooperative (somewhat) and at least check them out. I mostly looking for information on their liturgies and other practices that might differ from Roman Catholicism (i.e. Confession or something)

Thanks in advance!

[akamarymag]

iunno mabe this wil help

[url="http://www.byzcath.org/"]http://www.byzcath.org/[/url]

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04312d.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04312d.htm[/url]

[url="http://catholicism.about.com/cs/byzantinerite"]http://catholicism.about.com/cs/byzantinerite[/url]

[url="http://www.parma.org/what.htm"]http://www.parma.org/what.htm[/url]

[daugher-of-Mary]

From what I understand, you have to send a letter to your RC Bishop and to the Eastern Catholic Bishop of whatever diocese you are in requesting a change of Rites.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

I know HOW to change rites... I just want to make sure I understand the rite before I switch. I was told you can only switch ONCE... so if I change to Byzantine, then I can't be Roman Catholic anymore-- no exceptions.

But thanks anyways.

[daugher-of-Mary]

oohhhh lol. Sorry, must make a habit of reading posts before replying. -_- In any case, feel free to IM me if you want to know more about the Byzantine Rite...I'm a Byzantine Riter.

[BeenaBobba]

Hi Fides_et_Ratio,

I know how you feel because I, too, am looking into Eastern Catholicism. I first got knowledge of Eastern Catholicism through Anthony Dragani's[url="http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/forum25.htm"] Eastern Catholic Q&A forum[/url] on the [url="http://www.ewtn.com/"]EWTN website[/url]. If you search through Anthony's forum, you'll be able to find books about Eastern Catholic theological perspective and spirituality. Mr. Dragani also has his own website, called [url="http://www.east2west.org/"]From East to West[/url], which you might also find helpful.

The [url="http://www.byzcath.org/"]Byzantine Catholic Church in America's[/url] website is also really cool. They have a forum where you can speak to people interested in Eastern Christianity as well.

There are something like 22 Churches in communion with Rome that make up the Catholic Church, and most of those 22 Churches are Eastern. (There are around 4 Rites in the Catholic Church, including the Roman Rite.) You should do as much research as you can about each Church and Rite, and if you can, you should try to attend Divine Liturgy at as many Eastern Catholic Churches as you can. Of course, you should also pray, pray, and pray.

I hope this helps.

God bless,

Jennifer

[BeenaBobba]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Jun 3 2004, 12:30 AM'] I wasn't sure if this was the proper forum for this, but if not perhaps an admin can move it. [/quote]
I wouldn't worry too much about it. If the admin finds this topic to be more appropriate for another section in the phorum, I'm sure it'll be moved. You're new, so I don't think it's a big deal at all.

If you were ever to become an Eastern Catholic, "converting" to Eastern Catholicism probably wouldn't be an accurate word to use (unless, of course, you're not Catholic). When people become Melkite Catholic, for example, after being a Roman Catholic, they're not converting; they're just switching Churches. I just wanted to clarify that.

[quote]2 priests have suggested that I "change rites" now and I figure I should be cooperative (somewhat) and at least check them out. [/quote]

What is it that draws you to Eastern Catholicism, and why is it that your priests think it would be best for you to become Eastern Catholic?

[quote]I mostly looking for information on their liturgies and other practices that might differ from Roman Catholicism (i.e. Confession or something)[/quote]

The Divine Ligurgy is a bit different from the Mass in that it's longer, uses several litanies, an iconostasis, icons instead of statues, leavened bread for the Eucharist, only a cappella music, standing instead of kneeling, employs chants during the whole Divine Liturgy (except for the homily, I suppose), etc. There is much more to the Divine Liturgy that I'm sure you'll learn in due time.

The Sacraments, which are called "Mysteries" in Eastern Catholicism, are celebrated a bit differently as well. Eastern Catholics are baptized by full immersion, receive the Eucharist, and are Chrismated ([i]Chrismation[/i] is the Eastern Catholic word for Confirmation) all during the same ceremony -- and this is often done in infancy.

Marriage and Confession are done differently as well. Eastern Catholics generally confess in front of an icon of Christ, and when they are married, they are crowned. The Eastern Catholic marriage ceremony takes place apart from the Divine Liturgy.

You should read some of the great Eastern Catholic writings, such as those written by St. John Chrysostom, St. Gregory of Nazianzus, St. Basil the Great, St. Gregory of Nyssa, et al. You might also want to check out [u]The Way of the Pilgrim[/u], which is a great mystical work and an excellent introduction to hesychastic prayer. (Ever hear of the Jesus Prayer? The Jesus Prayer -- "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner" -- is an example of hesychastic prayer.)

There are some other differences between Roman Catholic and Eastern Catholicism. I'll list a few:

--Eastern Catholics make the Sign of the Cross from the right to the left -- and with the thumb up against the middle and pointer fingers and the ring and pinky fingers pressed against the palm. The thumb, index, and middle fingers together signify the Trinity, while the ring and pinky fingers together signify the divine and human natures of Christ.

--Married men can be ordained to the priesthood in Eastern Christianity. Bishops, however, cannot be. In Eastern Christianity, monks are unmarried and chaste, and it is from the monks that bishops are chosen.

--Eastern Catholicism tends to be more mystical, whereas Roman Catholicism tends to be more logical.

--Eastern Catholics look at Original Sin differently. They tend to see Original Sin as bringing death into the world, and the reason we sin is because we try to fight death.

--Eastern Catholics see Purgatory in different ways. Only two things are necessary for the dogma: 1.) that it's a place/state en route to Heaven, and 2.) that prayers for those in this state are efficacious. Eastern Catholics see Purgatory as the Final Theosis. Theosis is the process of becoming more Christ-like, so Eastern Catholics see the Final Theosis as the finishing of this process.

--Eastern Catholics, being more mystical, tend to rather leave things undefined.

--Eastern Catholics Churches omit the [i]filioque[/i] (the Latin term for "and from the Son") from the Creed.

Well, that's all for now. Before I go, I just want to point out that neither Roman nor Eastern Catholicism is more right or wrong, or superior or inferior, than each other. Both are fully, equally, and validly Catholic. Again, I hope this helps.

God bless,

Jennifer

P.S. You should check out [url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2LIGHT.HTM"]Orientale Lumen[/url] ("The Light of the East"), which was written by JPII.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

Wow! THANKS Jennifer! That's exactly what I was looking for!

[quote]What is it that draws you to Eastern Catholicism, and why is it that your priests think it would be best for you to become Eastern Catholic?[/quote]
Well, I never thought much about it until the two priests mentioned it. I have a partiality towards more "logic"/instructional sort of spiritual stuff than mystical... however I am usually drawn to many of the mystics (i.e. Saint John of the Cross, St. Teresa of Avila) when I read... and, of the Early Church Fathers, most of the easterners are my favorites (I think you mentioned them all! ).

The reason I assume the priests both suggested--- independently, too, which is why I decided to give it some thought-- that I change rites (I knew "convert" wasn't the right word, I was just hoping there was a better term for it and I didn't know which other forum would be most appropriate) is because I am very much drawn to and admire tradition and orthodoxy, and in fact am probably pretty insistive about it ( and gotten in too many arguments with my SD over such things). But especially with the liturgy... I LOVE the tradition attached to it (or that's supposed to be) and I really struggle with understanding Vatican II (or at least, the way it's been implemented and the response that has been taken-- or rather, not been taken so far to that).

I am somewhat "new" to the faith, though not a convert. My family does not practice the faith, nor really "profess" it. The only reason I was probably Confirmed and completed the previous "initiation" Sacraments was because the religious education intructor keeps tabs on all families of age for the CCD classes... my brother and I went to our CCD classes and participated in the Sacraments insofar as they were mandatory for that particular year (and probably only rarely attended even half the scheduled classes), and once CCD was over... we never set foot in the church again... I however, somehow managed to wiggle my way back (2 years ago I reconciled with the Church). And consider myself still very much a student of Catholicism (the theology of it is an abyss!) --though I could probably do a good job defending the Church and any Church doctrines against almost any Protestant as I've had enough practice to last me the rest of my life

Anyhow, sorry for such a long answer to what should be a simple question... but I guess the sum of all that is that right now the Roman rite seems to be a great source of frustration in my attempts at faith (or maintaining any) and both priests feel that the Byzantine (or another Eastern rite) might appeal more to my spirituality since I seem to have the intellectual part of Catholicism down.
It's the spirituality that's been the roadblock.


There is a Byzantine church near my own parish, which is probably why both priests recommended the Byzantine rite, but I've tried e-mailing the pastor (but to no avail)... I might have to give in and call him up, but I dread calling anywhere on the telephone! (I made my appointment for reconciliation through e-mail with the pastor at my parish! and actually getting there and talking to him... I don't think my heart has ever beat that fast in my life! ) So I was hoping to get as much information as I could, to at least be "informed" before going, so I'd have some idea of what's going on, and how things work, etc. (lol, see, I do like to be very precise and structured!)

This is probably something I should discuss with my spiritual director (and believe me, I will!) I'd just rather have most of the "basics" well learned before I seriously consider the switch.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='daugher-of-Mary' date='Jun 6 2004, 06:19 PM'] oohhhh lol. Sorry, must make a habit of reading posts before replying. -_- In any case, feel free to IM me if you want to know more about the Byzantine Rite...I'm a Byzantine Riter. [/quote]
That's okay. THANKS for the offer!

[Guest JeffCR07]

Hey, if you are looking for more information, please talk to Apotheoun. He is Byzantine Rite and a wonderfully brilliant guy. I'm positive that if you have any questions whatsoever, you can feel free to ask him and he'll give you more than an adequate response!

[Fides_et_Ratio]

thanks for the tip!