Spiritual Direction - Should You Pay For It?

[AccountDeleted]

Yes, nunsense, we get it, now you're saying the same things 4 or 5 times.

 

The organization you are going to has something wrong with it.  HOWEVER, you shouldn't jump to the conclusions that just because a moneteary sum is asked it makes all those asking for money in the wrong.

 

You've already stated that this place has some questionable theological values so  WHY do you keep harping on the fact that they won't take you on?  Consider it a blessing, report them to the dioceses for their errors against the church and MOVE ON.  When you find a good priest, nun or other person give what you can and then give more when you have the means.

 

The orgnizaiton that you keep going to has problems.  Money is a sign of that problem, not the core.

 

I feel like you are unjustly lauding Fr. Brian whilst not taking into concerns of those who are not provided food and clothing and housing by the dioceses as well as pocket money.    Even the fransciscan friars at a local parish acknowledge this...they don't have to worry about where they will lay their head, and they know some parishioners do.   They do eat so modestly that one parishoner thought they were buying for a big dinner when they were actually buying a weeks worth of food for two men!  

 

When you don't have that it's different.  He COULD be less generous, but he is not.  That is good....but it does not deserve lauds.

 

 

I am sorry, blazeingstar but I have no idea what you are going on about. If I repeat myself on this thread, guess what? I started it! And if I want to respond to every single post with my own opinion (that SD needs to be accessible to those who can't afford a large fee), then I will. Your post is very confrontational in tone, and I am not sure why you even bother to post in this thread if you dislike what I say so much. It's in the Debate Table so feel free to debate the topic, but there's no need to get angry about it! :)

 

I also don't get what you mean about unjustly lauding Father Brian either - do you know what lauding means? I propped his post because I like what he said. Since when is that a crime? I particularly like his statement that

 

If I spend an hour, two hours, or a half hour, it makes no difference, my feeling is when you start putting price tags, at all, on things, you start to feed the "how much do you charge mentaility," but we are working for something immeasurably more valuable and something that, in the world, could be worth a lot, actually, but because it is the Church, pricetags truly should mean nothing. 

 

 

If your main concern is for the poor, then guess what again? I am one of the poor. I might have a roof over my head and basic foodstuffs, thanks to the Australian government, but that's it. And most people in Australia have what I have, even if they are unemployed, because of our government here. But some people do slip through the cracks for whatever reason (usually they are suffering from some kind of psychological problem and don't seek the help they could get). Yesterday, I walked by a young man sleeping on the sidewalk who had a plastic bucket in front of him and a sign that said he was homeless. I put some money in his bucket. Some people don't give anything because they say that he could get government assistance if he wanted, and he was probably just using what he made from begging to buy alcohol or drugs or cigarettes etc. And maybe he will, but if he is prepared to sleep on the concrete to get a few extra dollars, then I don't begrudge giving it to him when I have it. What he really needs is more help than I can give him though - he needs counseling, he needs inspiration and motivation, he needs to know he is loved by God.

 

I don't need those things, I have them. What I need is some spiritual direction. I don't see why you can't get this point - maybe that's why I repeat it over and over again - because the message isn't getting through. If you disagree with me, and think that SDs should charge whatever amount they want and keep it that way, then that's your opinion - so be it. But it isn't mine. I started a poll to see what others think about the topic, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them any more than they have to agree with me. At the time I started it, I was frustrated at my inability to get spiritual direction.

 

But then I don't think your main concern is for the poor - I think it is for the rich, isn't it? There is an implied criticism in your posts that everyone SHOULD be able to pay large fees - because that is what keeps the system afloat. CCD and RCIA books and costs and expenses and so on and so on - all about money. Well, believe it or not, once upon a time, there were no large RCIA structures that required heaps of money to keep afloat and pay for books. In the old days, there was no such thing as RCIA, and yet converts like myself managed to get baptized and confirmed and learn how to love the church, through the goodness of priests and nuns and others in the Church - at no charge. I do believe in the 'user pays' system, such as putting money in the collection plate, according to what a person can afford. I don't believe anyone should be made to feel that they can't afford to belong to the Church or to get help from her. When the Church becomes only about money, then it takes on the appearance of a cult.

 

 

 

As for your statements that:

 

You've already stated that this place has some questionable theological values so  WHY do you keep harping on the fact that they won't take you on?  Consider it a blessing, report them to the dioceses for their errors against the church and MOVE ON.  When you find a good priest, nun or other person give what you can and then give more when you have the means.

 

 

Well, you've grabbed the bull by the horns and misread what I posted in the beginning so I will try to explain again. The two spiritual centres that are currently running in Melbourne have full Diocesan approval - they do NOT have 'questionable theological values' as you put it. One of them is a little more liberal than I like, but definitely not outside the Church - it is personal preference on my part. The other one is run by a religious Order and I feel much more comfortable with them. BUT, both of them charge a set fee of $50 per hour - no concessions. They will take me on - but I can't afford them. Got that? 

 

My complaints were that I have not been able to find a 'good nun, priest or other person' up until recently, so I was lamenting this fact. BUT, just recently I was contacted by a priest who has much the same attitude as Father Brian - money is not the object with him, so yes, I can give him a donation to his community.

 

So I am a happy little camper now personally, but I am still of the opinion that SD should not be something that is so pricey that ordinary people can't afford it. For those who can afford the high price tag, great, but even those of us on a fixed low income should have access to SD. And according to the poll, it does seem as if a few people agree with me.

 

 

 

Posted Today, 12:00 PM

i get my spiritual direction at mass  every Sunday, listening and contemplating the sermon.   i try to give a generous donation in the collection plate when i can, not because of getting some personal advice but because it feels good to give.

still say family is best place to find honest  spiritual direction...

 

 

And as for you add - I simply don't know any other ways to explain to you that my family would  NOT be good spiritual directors. My atheist brothers might laugh and agree to take me on, but I already know what their direction would be like. Ad families can not give 'honest' SD because there will always be a personal interest in what the person does.  :P

 

And Sunday Mass is not the same thing as SD - a good source of inspiration and spiritual food, but not the same thing at all. But if you don't really know what SD is, then there isn't much point in debating that.

[cmaD2006]

I am glad that things are that simple for you but unfortunately not every situation is equal. I have already 'humbled myself' and explained my situation to two spiritual centres and several priests, but was still told that the fee was $50 per session, with all of their explanations about how this was standard practice, expenses etc and that they can't make exceptions. So, no, things aren't well. :|

 

Nunsense:

 

I think this must be a bit of a sore point for you, and I'm sorry for your experience.  Again -- as I said (or I think I said -- I was in class when I posted and was 100% exhausted, and am still exhausted) any director worth it's weight in gold would work with you with respect to any stipend.

 

If they aren't working with you -- keep looking.  I am sure that the Lord has the right one for you, and that you will eventually find one.

 

Praying for you.

[AccountDeleted]

Nunsense:

 

I think this must be a bit of a sore point for you, and I'm sorry for your experience.  Again -- as I said (or I think I said -- I was in class when I posted and was 100% exhausted, and am still exhausted) any director worth it's weight in gold would work with you with respect to any stipend.

 

If they aren't working with you -- keep looking.  I am sure that the Lord has the right one for you, and that you will eventually find one.

 

Praying for you.

 

EDITED by Mod (cmariadiaz) -- my real name was used.

 

Oh your post was ok - I was tired at that point too, and it does get frustrating when people respond to a post without reading what was posted before. I know none of us has time to read everything, but guess what? If you read my last post, you will see that I have found a SD - a priest who does not charge a set fee. :)  So the Lord has done His work, as usual :)

[Lilllabettt]

fyi, your posts make you sound angry and bitter. just how it comes off to me personally. peace.

[AccountDeleted]

fyi, your posts make you sound angry and bitter. just how it comes off to me personally. peace.

 

Thanks for your input. peace to you too.

[abrideofChrist]

Saint Paul supported himself. All good Jews learned a trade. It's not that he didn't have a right to the tithe, he did; but because he wanted to be a model to others, he wrote the following, "If a man shall not work, neither shall he eat." Years ago, Nuns lived in appalling conditions because of their poverty. All because they were not paid a salary. If you gave valuable spiritual advice to others which is above and beyond your calling, wouldn't it be right for them to assist you monetarily for your time and sharing of your knowledge? So that you could be free to better help them? As with any helping profession, there has to a sufficient income to allow for charity causes. Otherwise, bills will go unpaid and the help will disappear. This is especially true for retreat centers who are famous for struggling financially because of the clients' inability or unwillingness to pay. It's a known fact that many centers operate in the red, unable to pay basic bills.

[brandelynmarie]

I've often wondered if a form of bartering would be an option in some cases...

[cmaD2006]

 

Oh your post was ok - I was tired at that point too, and it does get frustrating when people respond to a post without reading what was posted before. I know none of us has time to read everything, but guess what? If you read my last post, you will see that I have found a SD - a priest who does not charge a set fee. :)  So the Lord has done His work, as usual :)

 

You have to realize that I did *try* to read the posts ... just that where I was located I had very scattered internet access.  And I was stuck on a smartphone.

 

 

An aside:  Please ... PLEASE do not use my name on the net.  It is not public knowledge.

[PhuturePriest]

You have to realize that I did *try* to read the posts ... just that where I was located I had very scattered internet access.  And I was stuck on a smartphone.

 

 

An aside:  Please ... PLEASE do not use my name on the net.  It is not public knowledge.

 

Is this to imply that you name is NOT Maria Diaz and it is in fact a damnable lie?

 

For shame, Regulator, for shame...

Edited November 1, 2013 by FuturePriest387

[AnneLine]

Just because it is a name, doesn't mean it is the person's name.   All of us have the right to not have our everyday usage name used on Phatmass. 

 

I am pretty sure Nunsense did it unintentionally, because I remember her not much liking her own name being used at one point, but I do think that CMaria had every reason to ask hers not be used.   Some people do prefer to have theirs used; I only use yours, Miles, because at one point you specified you prefer it to 'FP'. 

 

I felt the same way when someone used my everyday name.    I generally prefer AL... and I'll come to Annie or anything kind.   Hey you, ugly llama, not so much!

[cmaD2006]

I am pretty sure Nunsense did it unintentionally, because I remember her not much liking her own name being used at one point, but I do think that CMaria had every reason to ask hers not be used.  

 

Agreed I do think it was unintentional ... but I really do refrain from using my name on the net.  Which is why I kind of jumped.

 

We're off topic but if someone does use your real name (and it isn't public knowledge) you can press the report button, and that is something the mods can edit out.  I'm lucky -- being a mod I could edit it quickly, but alas it was out on the net for a few days which makes me feel very uncomfortable.

[AccountDeleted]

Agreed I do think it was unintentional ... but I really do refrain from using my name on the net.  Which is why I kind of jumped.
 
We're off topic but if someone does use your real name (and it isn't public knowledge) you can press the report button, and that is something the mods can edit out.  I'm lucky -- being a mod I could edit it quickly, but alas it was out on the net for a few days which makes me feel very uncomfortable.

I don't usually use someone's real name on phamass, but in the past you have used yours yourself on many occasions, so I thought it was ok for you. Here are just a few times...

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/56937-butterflies-and-a-handful-of-other-physical-responses/#.UnRL3CW4ZgU
http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/59519-i-have-a-question/#.UnRNAyW4ZgU
http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/74874-confessorspiritual-director/#.UnRMzCW4ZgU

and AnneLine used your name here and there without you saying anything about it...

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/131075-dust-and-the-phorums-glitchyness-donations-needed/page-3#.UnRMbSW4ZgU
http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/120795-the-best-cat-food-taste-test/#.UnRNOyW4ZgU


So maybe you can understand my confusion?

Please forgive me though, now that I know you don't want it used, I won't. I started out signing my real name on phatmass when I first joined too, but I don't do that now because of bad experiences here. So I definitely get the reasons - I just wasn't sure with you and it kind of slipped out - but this is the first time you have said anything about it to anyone. But point taken now.

Edit: You are lucky though, because being a mod you can google your real name here on phatmass and edit out all the earlier occasions. I can't do that. OR edit out my email address which I posted a few times. But we live and learn. :) Edited November 2, 2013 by nunsense

[AnneLine]

Oh!   :eek:   I hadn't realized I had done it as well, Nunsense.... yes, unintentional on my part too.  Sorry, CMaria!  :blush:

 

I agree that part of being a mod must be wonderful!  There are other times, doesn't look so attractive.   I bet if you asked, a mod would willingly remove an email address, and maybe even a personal name....

 

 

[AccountDeleted]

Oh!   :eek:   I hadn't realized I had done it as well, Nunsense.... yes, unintentional on my part too.  Sorry, CMaria!  :blush:
 
I agree that part of being a mod must be wonderful!  There are other times, doesn't look so attractive.   I bet if you asked, a mod would willingly remove an email address, and maybe even a personal name....

:) I'll leave it up to God to protect me. It's kind of hard to put the cat back into the bag once it's out -- and I've been around here long enough that my name is pretty well known. But I don't use it anymore - too easy to google people. I know young people seem to have less problem with the lack of privacy online, but I'm still a bit old fashioned about some things and like to leave as small an online footprint as possible. :)

[cmaD2006]

I don't usually use someone's real name on phamass, but in the past you have used yours yourself on many occasions, so I thought it was ok for you. Here are just a few times...

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/56937-butterflies-and-a-handful-of-other-physical-responses/#.UnRL3CW4ZgU
http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/59519-i-have-a-question/#.UnRNAyW4ZgU
http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/74874-confessorspiritual-director/#.UnRMzCW4ZgU

and AnneLine used your name here and there without you saying anything about it...

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/131075-dust-and-the-phorums-glitchyness-donations-needed/page-3#.UnRMbSW4ZgU
http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/120795-the-best-cat-food-taste-test/#.UnRNOyW4ZgU


So maybe you can understand my confusion?

Please forgive me though, now that I know you don't want it used, I won't. I started out signing my real name on phatmass when I first joined too, but I don't do that now because of bad experiences here. So I definitely get the reasons - I just wasn't sure with you and it kind of slipped out - but this is the first time you have said anything about it to anyone. But point taken now.

Edit: You are lucky though, because being a mod you can google your real name here on phatmass and edit out all the earlier occasions. I can't do that. OR edit out my email address which I posted a few times. But we live and learn. :)

 

In the really, really long ago past -- it was used, but no I don't.  I didn't notice that AnneLine had used it (I would have edited it out or reported it to the mods). 

 

Going to edit now (the ones from the more recent past).  And for the record to everyone ... please do not use my real name unless I say otherwise.  I stay anonymous on the phorum.  It isn't the 1st time I've said it (I said it at least a year or two ago when it happened).

 

And well going too far into the past to edit is one thing, but if it was in the recent past let us (mods) know.  And the safest thing IS to use the person's tag -- you can't go wrong there ever since it is the person's name on phatmass, but you CAN go wrong with privacy by using the person's real name.

 

Nunsense -- I have respected your privacy and avoided using your real name, even though you have used it in the past.  I know I've asked you in particular not to use my real name on the phorum a few years ago, and you were great about it in the past.  I'm surprized that you didn't remember, especially since you don't like people using your name on the phorum.  I do understand that AnneLine's comments confused you though.

 

And actually the worst thing that could have been done was just done ... you pointed out specific threads where my name was used.  Now it IS that much more public.