The Catechism Of Trent Vs The Catechism Of The Catholic Church

[AugustineA]

As far as I know, both Catechisms are valid. Both support the teachings of the Church. Both are binding. That in mind, some people criticize the CCC as being vague or ambiguous in its language. The Catechism of Trent was promulgated at an earlier time, when (I feel) the Church was less self-conscious. 

 

Tell me if I'm wrong. :bounce:

 

So.. Is it okay to study the Catechism of Trent in order to get a clearer understanding of the teachings of the Church? 

[Nihil Obstat]

So.. Is it okay to study the Catechism of Trent in order to get a clearer understanding of the teachings of the Church?

Absolutely! It is an excellent, valuable read.

[AugustineA]

Thanks Nihil!

 

I have found an online version if anyone is interested. I'm on article 1. 

 

http://www.cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/trent/tindex.htm

[Brother Adam]

As far as I know, both Catechisms are valid. Both support the teachings of the Church. Both are binding. That in mind, some people criticize the CCC as being vague or ambiguous in its language. The Catechism of Trent was promulgated at an earlier time, when (I feel) the Church was less self-conscious. 

 

Tell me if I'm wrong. :bounce:

 

So.. Is it okay to study the Catechism of Trent in order to get a clearer understanding of the teachings of the Church? 

 

The Church was not self-conscious (in a negative connotation) when she wrote the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Yes, you can read both. I would go back further and spend time with the Council of Trent, and even before that all of the previous councils.

 

Start here: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_19921011_fidei-depositum_en.html

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

As you said both are valid, there is no vs in the sense that one is better or worse. My understanding are both are types of grapes just different types of grapes and both are used to make holy wine. :) some have a preferable grape and some can drink anything lol, in the sense thirst for the spirit.

[Not The Philosopher]

I want to study the Council of Trent more in general. It seems pretty razzle-dazzle.

[Apotheoun]

The Catechism of the Council of Trent is past its sell-by-date. You need to get up to speed with the re-reading of the Gospel in the light of contemporary culture.  :evil:

[AugustineA]

The Church was not self-conscious (in a negative connotation) when she wrote the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Yes, you can read both. I would go back further and spend time with the Council of Trent, and even before that all of the previous councils.

 

Start here: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_19921011_fidei-depositum_en.html

 

Maybe self-conscious was not the right word. They are very different. I just finished the first few articles of the Catechism of the Council of Trent. It opens with a fine look at the Apostle's Creed and the various properties of God. In comparison, chapter 1 of the CCC begins with Man's Capacity for God. Also interesting, but a very different approach.

 

Two concerns I've heard about the CCC is that it lacks definitions and has a more humanistic edge. Why do you think the approach has changed? edit: Or do you agree it's changed?

 

 

As you said both are valid, there is no vs in the sense that one is better or worse. My understanding are both are types of grapes just different types of grapes and both are used to make holy wine. :) some have a preferable grape and some can drink anything lol, in the sense thirst for the spirit.

 

That's a nice way of looking at it. I'm quite happy with the CCC. I must say though, the Catechism of Trent is fantastic in terms of its language and prose. 

Edited September 25, 2013 by AugustineA

[AugustineA]

o boy I'm double posting.  :banned:

 

I want to study the Council of Trent more in general. It seems pretty razzle-dazzle.

 

It certainly was pretty razzle dazzle. Everything 500 years ago was pretty razzle dazzle.

 

The Catechism of the Council of Trent is past its sell-by-date. You need to get up to speed with the re-reading of the Gospel in the light of contemporary culture.  :evil:

 

haha.. I know your ways Apotheoun, and I'm not falling for it!

 

[Not The Philosopher]

 

 

 

Everything 500 years ago was pretty razzle dazzle.

 

 

 

 

Dentistry?

[Basilisa Marie]

Of course you can (and should!) read the Catechism from Trent.  

 

That being said, there are good reasons why the language is vague in today's CCC.  It leaves room for interpretation, often, language is vague when there's disagreement on the particulars (see: pretty much any major document from Vatican II).  Trent's Catechism doesn't trump today's CCC, but Trent's catechism can be a very useful tool to give context to the CCC.  

[AugustineA]

Dentistry?

 

Totes.

 

 

 

Of course you can (and should!) read the Catechism from Trent.  

 

That being said, there are good reasons why the language is vague in today's CCC.  It leaves room for interpretation, often, language is vague when there's disagreement on the particulars (see: pretty much any major document from Vatican II).  Trent's Catechism doesn't trump today's CCC, but Trent's catechism can be a very useful tool to give context to the CCC.  

 

 

Im reading it! Yeah that was my hunch. There's alot of good stuff in the CCC. But the language of the CoT is like BAM Faith in your Face. 

Edited September 25, 2013 by AugustineA

[Luigi]

A priest told me that the Council of Trent was primarily concerned with refuting Luther and other Protestant theologians - the documents were mostly reactions to/refutations of statements made by non-Catholics. He said Trent didn't add any new understandings or interpretations of Catholic theology, but they did develop some standard formulations for expressing existent Catholic teachings.  

 

The same priest told me that the Vatican Council was not conerned with refuting other people's claims - Vatican II was focused on maintaining traditional theology but updating it to fit current social circumstances.

 

Others on board might have more knowledge of this and can clarify if I'm misremembering.

 

 

But I've always thought that was a handy way to understand the two councils.

[Apteka]

Vatican II seems like an undoing of Trent, especially in liturgical matters. I mean of the Council Fathers of Trent adopted the Vatican II resolutions, would there have been a division between Catholics and Protestants?

[AugustineA]

A priest told me that the Council of Trent was primarily concerned with refuting Luther and other Protestant theologians - the documents were mostly reactions to/refutations of statements made by non-Catholics. He said Trent didn't add any new understandings or interpretations of Catholic theology, but they did develop some standard formulations for expressing existent Catholic teachings.  

 

The same priest told me that the Vatican Council was not conerned with refuting other people's claims - Vatican II was focused on maintaining traditional theology but updating it to fit current social circumstances.

 

Others on board might have more knowledge of this and can clarify if I'm misremembering.

 

 

But I've always thought that was a handy way to understand the two councils.

 

Actually yes. My understanding was the same. Vatican II was supposed to be pastoral. So, if we generalize the spirit of the counsels to their prospective catechisms, weee could say that the CCC is more pastoral in nature. But to be honest, I don't really know enough about this. This was a good read, someone posted it above: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_19921011_fidei-depositum_en.html

 

Vatican II seems like an undoing of Trent, especially in liturgical matters. I mean of the Council Fathers of Trent adopted the Vatican II resolutions, would there have been a division between Catholics and Protestants?

 

Good question Apteka. That would require a comparison of Luther's understanding of liturgy, the CCC, and the Catechism of Trent on liturgy. Time to break out the coffee?  :bible:  Though my suspicion is that Luther would still find issue with a number of practices within the Church, despite the move towards ecumenism in the CCC (see link I just reposted above).