blazeingstar Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 That's pretty ridiculous. Traditionalists (Like all others) can sometimes go way overboard with their beliefs, and I'm sorry you've been treated that way. Thank you FP. I am slowly realizing my reality of the Catholic church...old, frail, highly criticized...where the OF ushers wear Obama campaing buttons to Mass and the anti-culture TLM'ers who seem to want to be Amish are not how the rest of the world---or even US live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) i have anxiety too - over different things - that can be exacerbated by going to Mass. but I don't blame other people for my anxiety. so either i suck it up and try go to Mass, or I don't go. does that suck immensely? yeah. Amen. You know what kinda anxiety I have? It's of the social variety, so worrying about how other people are perceiving me by what I look like, how fat I am that day, the type of clothes I own, how my face look, what my body posture is saying, how my voice sounds, where I choose to sit, the etiquette of 'the sign of peace' . . . all of these things can be a major source of anxiety for me personally. But it's my problem. I know that not everyone is sitting back and judging the hell out of me over these things, and I can't blame other people for them being human because I'm paranoid. (I'd of course like to imagine that people don't judge me for any of the above, but I know that some people MUST because on the internet and in personal conversations I hear people blasting others for the same beaver dam things. When my social anxiety was real bad, these things kept me from doing mostly anything that involved strangers including going to Mass.) I know people judge, and it may be a really stupid thing to believe, but perhaps I thought Christians aren't supposed to judge so hard on superficial **** or at least keep their judgements to their selves? It's not a terribly impossible thing to do. Give other people a little benefit of the doubt every now and then, and if you believe they are OBJECTIVELY wrong pray for them, while realizing you might also be wrong. The world doesn't revolve around you or your conception of perfection. That is nothing short of tragic. I mean that genuinely. Our priest (FSSP) said to us once, towards the start of the summer (I paraphrase), "if you drive someone away from our Mass because of the clothing they are wearing, then shame on you. No matter what our standards of modesty are, it is completely inappropriate and not your place for you to be criticizing the people around you, and if you drive that person away from the Church, then it is on your conscience." He sounds like a cool bro, bro. it was always just a givin' that we would go. 40 lashes for this egregious solecism. Edited September 20, 2013 by Ice_nine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) That would absolutely never happen here. I find that repulsive. Calgary, Canada. Small-c conservative area, but the diocese is more or less unfriendly to traditionalism. So's ours...but that tends to keep only the most extreme in the fringe and keep a lot of secrecy and hostility to outsiders. There is one large family (I think 10-12 kids) that would rather endure the stares of the OF crowd than have the Traditional Latin Mass crowd criticize them for not putting their toddler girl in a dress. Now this family has other issues in my opinion (like the fact that the father never seems to take care of the kids, and the two eldest daughters (young teens/tween) spend most of the mass in the vestibule with fussy infants) but still, they didn't feel harassed by the OF folks and often got nicer comments. The dad/kid stuff is based on my observations, but why not TLM is from their grandmother, who chatted me up in an internet cafe after Mass. Edited September 20, 2013 by blazeingstar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 Thank you FP. I am slowly realizing my reality of the Catholic church...old, frail, highly criticized...where the OF ushers wear Obama campaing buttons to Mass and the anti-culture Traditional Latin Mass'ers who seem to want to be Amish are not how the rest of the world---or even US live. Not even close. There are crazy liberal OF parishes across America, just as there are insane Shiite EF parishes across America. But there are also thousands of wonderful, faithful, charitable and loving parishes of both EF and OF across America as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 Amen. You know what kinda anxiety I have? It's of the social variety, so worrying about how other people are perceiving me by what I look like, how fat I am that day, the type of clothes I own, how my face look, what my body posture is saying, how my voice sounds, where I choose to sit, the etiquette of 'the sign of peace' . . . all of these things can be a major source of anxiety for me personally. But it's my problem. I know that not everyone is sitting back and judging the hell out of me over these things, and I can't blame other people for them being human because I'm paranoid. (I'd of course like to imagine that people don't judge me for any of the above, but I know that some people MUST because on the internet and in personal conversations I hear people blasting others for the same beaver dam things. When my social anxiety was real bad, these things kept me from doing mostly anything that involved strangers including going to Mass.) I know people judge, and it may be a really stupid thing to believe, but perhaps I thought Christians aren't supposed to judge so hard on superficial **** or at least keep their judgements to their selves? It's not a terribly impossible thing to do. Give other people a little benefit of the doubt every now and then, and if you believe they are OBJECTIVELY wrong pray for them, while realizing you might also be wrong. The world doesn't revolve around you or your conception of perfection. He sounds like a cool bro, bro. 40 lashes for this egregious solecism. I didn't make a solecism. It's called slang language. It comes in all varieties, even from Kansas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 Seriously, and you come off as a bit hypercritical. I am seeing on this thread parents engaged in an overemotional debate by saying that they are somehow persecuted. It's not a valid argument in my eyes. That's my point....everyone suffers, and parents emotional sensitivities shouldn't be part of this argument. please explain to he how I am hypocritical;. I never said I was suffering because of my children and other people. I have only said that it is wrong to say that children should not be brought to mass until they reach the age of reason, so tell me how I am being hypocritical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 I think people are missing the nuance of the parents with children at church described in the article. It describes parents wincing at their child's behavior and making effort to control and teach their kids. Big difference from parents who think all childish behavior is "cute" and just smiles when their four year old is running up and down the aisles, climbing over a couple of pews, or is under the pew ten feet away playing prairie dog.. The are some standards of expected behavior that should be attempted when parenting and bringing your kids out in public. Sorry if you feel offended if others don't think it's cute when your brat plays in the Baptisimal font while you smile at them endearingly as they splash "Jesus water" on the floor. Those kind of 'rents make it even tougher the parents who struggle keeping their kids within arms reach and try to hush a child's commentary on how the priest has a dress on and if he's a boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 He sounds like a cool bro, bro. The absolute coolest. http://youtu.be/zMtBErFFyp0 So's ours...but that tends to keep only the most extreme in the fringe and keep a lot of secrecy and hostility to outsiders. There is one large family (I think 10-12 kids) that would rather endure the stares of the OF crowd than have the Traditional Latin Mass crowd criticize them for not putting their toddler girl in a dress. Now this family has other issues in my opinion (like the fact that the father never seems to take care of the kids, and the two eldest daughters (young teens/tween) spend most of the mass in the vestibule with fussy infants) but still, they didn't feel harassed by the OF folks and often got nicer comments. The dad/kid stuff is based on my observations, but why not Traditional Latin Mass is from their grandmother, who chatted me up in an internet cafe after Mass. I am very sorry that has been your experience. All I can do is reiterate that I find it absolutely repulsive, and wherever I happen to be throughout my life I will do everything in my power to make sure it does not become the case. I have been blessed with a traditional community done properly. We have our minor issues, as do all parish communities, but by and large people are friendly, the confessionals are full, and things run smoothly. So since I have seen things done well, I think I have an obligation to carry that with me when I am living elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 So's ours...but that tends to keep only the most extreme in the fringe and keep a lot of secrecy and hostility to outsiders. There is one large family (I think 10-12 kids) that would rather endure the stares of the OF crowd than have the Traditional Latin Mass crowd criticize them for not putting their toddler girl in a dress. Now this family has other issues in my opinion (like the fact that the father never seems to take care of the kids, and the two eldest daughters (young teens/tween) spend most of the mass in the vestibule with fussy infants) but still, they didn't feel harassed by the OF folks and often got nicer comments. The dad/kid stuff is based on my observations, but why not Traditional Latin Mass is from their grandmother, who chatted me up in an internet cafe after Mass. Glad you criticize the father of this family without know him or his situation. Also good to just look at people, assume something and judge them as bad. Way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) Glad you criticize the father of this family without know him or his situation. Also good to just look at people, assume something and judge them as bad. Way to go. When the poor mother is tearing her hair out and the father sits stiff as a board and dosn't even look her way through mass, (and may only give the middle kids a dirty look) and the older girls are caring for the toddlers infants (whilst the older boys also sit stiff and don't seem to interact at all until after Mass) then yes, I think this is very sad. Perhaps it's so he dosn't whip them all. But still it's very sad to see. Sadder than if they didn't bring the kids. Edited September 20, 2013 by blazeingstar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 please explain to he how I am hypocritical;. I never said I was suffering because of my children and other people. I have only said that it is wrong to say that children should not be brought to mass until they reach the age of reason, so tell me how I am being hypocritical? Of me, hypocritical of ME for everything I have said so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 I didn't make a solecism. It's called slang language. It comes in all varieties, even from Kansas. No young padawan, givin' even when pronounced without the velar nasal (ng) is still a verb. I think you meant the noun "given." In other news I'm only trying to floss my rudimentary linguistix skills as a pretense to my intelligence. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 When the poor mother is tearing her hair out and the father sits stiff as a board and dosn't even look her way through mass, (and may only give the middle kids a dirty look) and the older girls are caring for the toddlers infants (whilst the older boys also sit stiff and don't seem to interact at all until after Mass) then yes, I think this is very sad. Perhaps it's so he dosn't whip them all. But still it's very sad to see. Sadder than if they didn't bring the kids. do you know that he has no mental health issues or physical ailments? Do you know their personal situation? Oh, so your judging others by their outward look without know the whole story. Yeah, cause that's the Christian thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 Of me, hypocritical of ME for everything I have said so far. how? still waiting for an explaination how I am being hypocritical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 do you know that he has no mental health issues or physical ailments? Do you know their personal situation? Oh, so your judging others by their outward look without know the whole story. Yeah, cause that's the Christian thing to do. how? still waiting for an explaination how I am being hypocritical By this. Maybe he has a mental or phyiscal issue that allows him to produce children and be friendly and jovial at donughts after mass but appearing to not be caring DURING Mass, that could be. But you could also not be hypercritial of my observation and take it that perhaps I am right and that it IS very sad to see a man who can drive his family to church, unload them from the van and then joke with the priest after Mass leave the care of his brood to his wife and older daughters during. This is not the only man I've observed who seems to be very disconnected with the family unit during Mass and leaving most of the work to his wife. Infact, when a family has a seriously riled child or children that have gotten to the point of serious disruption, I can usually look over and see a man doing absolutely nothing. This is especially true with the first communion class kids. There are good families where the husband is participatory in the children's care....and they never bother me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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