Apteka Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 (edited) There are Orthodox who are ecumenically minded, and there are Orthodox who are not interested in ecumenism. In that sense they are probably a lot like Roman Catholics. I am sure some Roman Catholics would love to see communion restored with the Orthodox, but there are no doubt others who do not care one way or the other, and there are probably large numbers of Roman Catholics who do not even know that Eastern Orthodoxy exists. I just hope that Pope Francis speaks off-the-cuff less, because every time he does I have Orthodox friends who contact me and ask me what the heck is going on. That's me... in the little boat Edited September 21, 2013 by Apteka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Futurepriest, just to let you know I'm not trying to pick on you. I suppose it is frustrating for me because I have friends on both sides of the divide, and I hate it when the divide gets bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 (edited) I know, I'm talking in very broad strokes. But I think the most basic, most fundamental truths of the faith are that simple, in a lot of ways. It's like the magnanimity the Pope was talking about in the interview. In one practical way, I think that making sure we tie a particular teaching to the greater whole is really important. Most of the time when I'm explaining a Church teaching about sexual ethics for the first time to someone, I point out that all the Church's teachings on sexual ethics interlock together, and they don't seem to make sense if you take one out of the puzzle. It doesn't always happen, but if I can find a way to tie it back to the Catholic Church having the full deposit of divine revelation, being the true Church, and Christ's sacrificial redemptive love, I will. In my experience, just the seemingly small act of emphasizing the tie back to the whole picture (or what I've been referencing as the more fundamental truths), seems to be helpful. Even if it seems like a superfluous reminder that we do all this because of Jesus. Quite honestly I do not think that anyone can do what Pope Francis is talking about, i.e., present the whole picture in one fell swoop, and so things are going to be left out in the presentation of the faith. And what worries me is that Pope Francis in the interview accused the Church of obsessing about abortion, homosexuality, and contraception, but you know what, I do not believe that the Church has done that; instead, it is the mainstream media that has obsessed on these three issues and because it has done so the Church has had to respond. Remember - as St. Thomas More said - silence implies consent. The Church must speak out when the truth is questioned, and sadly the truth is not so much being questioned as openly denied today. Edited September 21, 2013 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Well, if they're so distraught over what Pope Francis is doing then I guess it's fortunate that they're Eastern Orthodox and not members of the Roman Catholic Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apteka Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Quite honestly I do not think that anyone can do what Pope Francis is talking about, i.e., present the whole picture in one fell swoop, and so things are going to be left out in the presentation of the faith. And what worries me is that Pope Francis in the interview accused the Church of obsessing about abortion, homosexuality, and contraception, but you know what, I do not believe that the Church has done that; instead, it is the mainstream media that has obsessed on these three issues and because it has done so the Church has had to respond. Remember - as St. Thomas More said - silence implies consent. The Church must speak out when the truth is questioned, and sadly the truth is not so much being questioned as openly denied today. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 (edited) Well, if they're so distraught over what Pope Francis is doing then I guess it's fortunate that they're Eastern Orthodox and not members of the Roman Catholic Church. Well, that is what they say. But I would like for all Christians to be in communion with each other. Although I admit it is not likely to happen any time soon. Edited September 21, 2013 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 It's that way in the Serbian Church, sadly. Not all Serbian Orthodox are Anti-Catholic of course, but I know in the past their Patriarch has spoken against the Catholic Church. Fortunately, many Serbian Orthodox enjoy sodomy and fornication. Despite certain idealizations about the purity of the Orthodox Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicsAreKewl Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 (edited) It's a difference in approach. I can say "Look, guys, I think we should really stop spending so much money on this road trip. I'm almost out and I don't know how we can pay to get back home." or I can say "GUYS! STOP SPENDING MONEY! YOU IDIOTS ARE BREAKING ME!" Which do you think people will respond more positively to? There's a difference, though. Those who criticize the Church on its stance against gay marriage do so because they believe it violates the rights of gay people (including non-Catholics). It shouldn't matter too much how the Pope addresses the issue. To explain this situation more accurately, we would need to slightly modify your example. Everything would stay the same except in this case you're requesting money, you have a gun in your hand, and there isn't a road trip. It doesn't matter if you ask nicely or not. You're still violating the rights of the other people. Edited September 21, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted September 21, 2013 Author Share Posted September 21, 2013 Quite honestly I do not think that anyone can do what Pope Francis is talking about, i.e., present the whole picture in one fell swoop, and so things are going to be left out in the presentation of the faith. And what worries me is that Pope Francis in the interview accused the Church of obsessing about abortion, homosexuality, and contraception, but you know what, I do not believe that the Church has done that; instead, it is the mainstream media that has obsessed on these three issues and because it has done so the Church has had to respond. Remember - as St. Thomas More said - silence implies consent. The Church must speak out when the truth is questioned, and sadly the truth is not so much being questioned as openly denied today. Again, fair point, it may be the media's fault. Heck, you can see them doing that right now by taking all kinds of Francis quotes out of context and pretending like he's saying things that are brand new about doctrine. And I may be reading Francis with my own positive biases for a sympathetic understanding. And I agree, we definitely should keep speaking out. I'm probably being too optimistic, but I still don't see why including references to the purpose of moral teachings being Christ and salvation has to automatically mean taking away from what's being said against those great cultural waves moving away from the Church. Maybe that's the thing I keep assuming but don't understand - why do people think that adding something to our message means taking things away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Fortunately, many Serbian Orthodox enjoy sodomy and fornication. Despite certain idealizations about the purity of the Orthodox Church. The Orthodox have the same understanding of the purity of the Church as Roman Catholics. The Church - as the body of Christ - is sinless, for she is His spotless bride, but the members of the Church remain sinners, which is why scandals can and do arise among the faithful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 There's a difference, though. Those who criticize the Church on its stance against gay marriage do so because they believe it violates the rights of gay people (including non-Catholics). It shouldn't matter too much how the Pope addresses the issue. To explain this situation more accurately, we would need to slightly modify your example. Everything would stay the same except in this case you're requesting money, you have a gun in your hand, and there isn't a road trip. It doesn't matter if you ask nicely or not, you're still violating the rights of the other people. But if we were to present the Faith with charity and explain that it is not taking their rights away, they wouldn't see it as holding a gun up to them rather than us offering a lifestyle choice (In secular terms) that is greater than the one they are living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apteka Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 There's a difference, though. Those who criticize the Church on its stance against gay marriage do so because they believe it violates the rights of gay people (including non-Catholics). It shouldn't matter too much how the Pope addresses the issue. To explain this situation more accurately, we would need to slightly modify your example. Everything would stay the same except in this case you're requesting money, you have a gun in your hand, and there isn't a road trip. It doesn't matter if you ask nicely or not, you're still violating the rights of the other people. Hopefully polygamists and polyandrists will also be able exercise this right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apteka Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 But if we were to present the Faith with charity and explain that it is not taking their rights away, they wouldn't see it as holding a gun up to them rather than us offering a lifestyle choice (In secular terms) that is greater than the one they are living. So apparently the Church hasn't been expressing it's positions with charity. Thanks Francis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 (edited) Again, fair point, it may be the media's fault. It may be the fault of the media? It most assuredly is the media that fixates on these particular moral issues, and it can even be seen in entertainment programs and not just the news. Almost every show has to have its token lesbian or gay couple these days. Who is obsessing? The Church? I don't think so, and yet Pope Francis said that it is the Church that is obsessing about these things. I cannot express in words how terribly disappointed I was to see the Bishop of Rome say that. Edited September 21, 2013 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Hopefully polygamists and polyandrists will also be able exercise this right Hopefully. It's called polyamory, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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