Interview With Pope Francis In America Magazine

[PhuturePriest]

So let's not worry about the more than 300 million Orthodox Christians, who actually have a lot in common with the Roman Church as it has traditionally lived the faith, and go after those who are less likely to respond positively. Doesn't it maybe make more sense to find your allies and work with them, maybe even try to restore communion with them, so that you can - as a stronger body - try and convert non-believers? Nah, let's just alienate the Orthodox, and make them think that the Roman Church is about to reinvent itself yet again.

 

Less likely to respond? We've been working with Orthodox Christians for a thousand years, and they generally have a lot of bad to say about us no matter what we do. The Orthodox have no interest in coming back into Communion, especially if we don't renounce the OF as a gigantic mistake and go back to the EF. The Orthodox are wonderful. But they are very proud, and they like their independence. Their pride is easily seen by the fact they think they're more Christian than the successor of Saint Peter.

[Apotheoun]

Exactly! And I think that it's a lot easier for people to "digest" the truths of the faith, especially the moral issues, when you have the whole picture.  The Church's positions on homosexual activities, contraception, etc don't make much sense to those outside the system. For better or worse, it has internal coherency.  Talking about the reasons for a particular understanding of sacramental marriage may be a better way of helping people understand the reasons against gay marriage, for example.  Because it's pretty obvious to me that by and large, the current tactics of getting society to hear, understand, and agree with what we believe have more or less failed.  

Basilisa, present the whole picture to me. How do you go about doing that? I am interested to know? Is the faith so simple that you can present the whole of it in one glance?

Edited September 21, 2013 by Apotheoun

[4588686]

Interesting, because the Church already talks about these things

 

 

Does Hasan always resort to such lame tactics? The Church addresses a multiplicity of issues. Many of those issues non-Catholics will find themselves in agreement with the Church, but sadly, there are issues of disagreement as well. Now I know folks like Hasan would very much like the Church to effectively drop any issue the world contends with her, but that's just not how it works. The Church must stand up for all issues. You want to start with the things of agreement? Go ahead, but eventually you'll run into the same unresolved areas of debate.

 

 

Those are the issues that the most vocal elements of your activist base harp on.  Either all these people you're trying to reach are just too stupid to understand what you guys were trying to say, until the Francis guy started messing things up, or you guys have done a shitty job doing anything other than preaching to your own choir.  

[Selah]

Less likely to respond? We've been working with Orthodox Christians for a thousand years, and they generally have a lot of bad to say about us no matter what we do. The Orthodox have no interest in coming back into Communion, especially if we don't renounce the OF as a gigantic mistake and go back to the EF. The Orthodox are wonderful. But they are very proud, and they like their independence. Their pride is easily seen by the fact they think they're more Christian than the successor of Saint Peter.

 

Yeesh, way to lump us all together <_< 

[Apteka]

Exactly! And I think that it's a lot easier for people to "digest" the truths of the faith, especially the moral issues, when you have the whole picture.  The Church's positions on homosexual activities, contraception, etc don't make much sense to those outside the system. For better or worse, it has internal coherency.  Talking about the reasons for a particular understanding of sacramental marriage may be a better way of helping people understand the reasons against gay marriage, for example.  Because it's pretty obvious to me that by and large, the current tactics of getting society to hear, understand, and agree with what we believe have more or less failed.  

 

Again, when has the Church divorced the moral issues from the whole?

 

Anyone? Anyone?

 

Bueller?

 

[Apotheoun]

Is not the fecundity of husband and wife in marriage an icon of the life-creating power of the Holy Trinity? Are not these two things connected? Can the modern Western endorsement of marriage between two men or between two women image the Holy Trinity? Can what our culture is promoting even be considered true marriage? Is marriage a central part of the Christian message or is it a secondary or a lesser truth? Is Christ the Bridegroom and the Church His bride or not?  

Edited September 21, 2013 by Apotheoun

[CatholicsAreKewl]

Wait, so let me get this clear. His position on gay marriage is the same as Pope B16s but he's just using nicer words to describe it? The exact same? Am I wrong for saying this just makes him a better politician?

Edited September 21, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[PhuturePriest]

Yeesh, way to lump us all together <_<

 

I do what I can.

 

I suppose I should clarify I am speaking mostly about Orthodox leaders. I'm sure there's a few Orthodox leaders who have every interest in coming back into full communion, but from what I understand the general consensus among the leaders is to stay away from the ways of the Romans.

[Apteka]

Those are the issues that the most vocal elements of your activist base harp on.  Either all these people you're trying to reach are just too stupid to understand what you guys were trying to say, until the Francis guy started messing things up, or you guys have done a shiitake mushroom job doing anything other than preaching to your own choir.  

 

Um yea, people harp on issues of contention. The LGBT harp on the Church's moral issues because there is an issue of disagreement, and vice versa. But when have these been the only issues? When have these issues been divorced from the whole?

 

It all seems so... superfluous...

[Apotheoun]

Wait, so let me get this clear. His position on gay marriage is the same but he's just using nicer words to describe it? The exact same? Am I wrong for saying this just makes him a better politician?

Is it the same? Or is he simply giving an incomplete message. He says in the interview that Christ saves us, but never really says what He saves us from? Why is that?

[Selah]

I do what I can.

 

I suppose I should clarify I am speaking mostly about Orthodox leaders. I'm sure there's a few Orthodox leaders who have every interest in coming back into full communion, but from what I understand the general consensus among the leaders is to stay away from the ways of the Romans.

 

It's that way in the Serbian Church, sadly. Not all Serbian Orthodox are Anti-Catholic of course, but I know in the past their Patriarch has spoken against the Catholic Church.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Selah

[PhuturePriest]

Wait, so let me get this clear. His position on gay marriage is the same but he's just using nicer words to describe it? The exact same? Am I wrong for saying this just makes him a better politician?

 

It's a difference in approach. I can say "Look, guys, I think we should really stop spending so much money on this road trip. I'm almost out and I don't know how we can pay to get back home." or I can say "GUYS! STOP SPENDING MONEY! YOU IDIOTS ARE BREAKING ME!" Which do you think people will respond more positively to?

[Apotheoun]

I do what I can.

 

I suppose I should clarify I am speaking mostly about Orthodox leaders. I'm sure there's a few Orthodox leaders who have every interest in coming back into full communion, but from what I understand the general consensus among the leaders is to stay away from the ways of the Romans.

There are Orthodox who are ecumenically minded, and there are Orthodox who are not interested in ecumenism. In that sense they are probably a lot like Roman Catholics. I am sure some Roman Catholics would love to see communion restored with the Orthodox, but there are no doubt others who do not care one way or the other, and there are probably large numbers of Roman Catholics who do not even know that Eastern Orthodoxy exists. I just hope that Pope Francis speaks off-the-cuff less, because every time he does I have Orthodox friends who contact me and ask me what the heck is going on. 

[Apteka]

It's a difference in approach. I can say "Look, guys, I think we should really stop spending so much money on this road trip. I'm almost out and I don't know how we can pay to get back home." or I can say "GUYS! STOP SPENDING MONEY! YOU IDIOTS ARE BREAKING ME!" Which do you think people will respond more positively to?

 

How is this a difference approach? When has the Church presented the moral issues divorced from the Faith? When has the Church failed to teach the Gospel? Is it not the secular media and anti-Catholic groups that overemphasize these issues?

 

Are we simply going to never speak on the moral issues? Are they going to be marginalized, things we regard as minor and not of such a concern to prevent the Church from further unifying with the secular world?

[Basilisa Marie]

Basilisa, present the whole picture to me. How do you go about doing that? I am interested to know? Is the faith so simple that you can present the whole of it in one glance?

 

I know, I'm talking in very broad strokes.  But I think the most basic, most fundamental truths of the faith are that simple, in a lot of ways.  It's like the magnanimity the Pope was talking about in the interview.  

 

In one practical way, I think that making sure we tie a particular teaching to the greater whole is really important.  Most of the time when I'm explaining a Church teaching about sexual ethics for the first time to someone, I point out that all the Church's teachings on sexual ethics interlock together, and they don't seem to make sense if you take one out of the puzzle. It doesn't always happen, but if I can find a way to tie it back to the Catholic Church having the full deposit of divine revelation, being the true Church, and Christ's sacrificial redemptive love, I will.  In my experience, just the seemingly small act of emphasizing the tie back to the whole picture (or what I've been referencing as the more fundamental truths), seems to be helpful.  Even if it seems like a superfluous reminder that we do all this because of Jesus.