Apteka Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I've seen tons of friends who are viscerally hostile to religion talking about how maybe Pope Francis has something to say to them. I've seen, for the first time, the Dawkins wannabes on the defensive and having to really justify their hostility to other secularists. You all have, for the first time in my adult life, a Pope who can do something besides preach to the choir. It's going to be exciting to see how the more reactionary elements of the conservative wing will torpedo this and hasten the Church's sinking into irrelevancy. Exactly what I suggested, it's the startlement of going into a boxing match with your opponent standing with his hands to his side. Your viscerally hostile friends can no longer justify their hatred, because Francis has taken a step towards their corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I've seen tons of friends who are viscerally hostile to religion talking about how maybe Pope Francis has something to say to them. I've seen, for the first time, the Dawkins wannabes on the defensive and having to really justify their hostility to other secularists. You all have, for the first time in my adult life, a Pope who can do something besides preach to the choir. It's going to be exciting to see how the more reactionary elements of the conservative wing will torpedo this and hasten the Church's sinking into irrelevancy. I'm definitely very excited at the great work he has been able to do in such a short time. I think he may be one of those Popes where even the non-Catholics are crying when he (Hopefully a long time from now) dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Francis has them on the defensive? Perhaps only in the sense that the Church was once seen as an enemy across the battlefield, is now being found among their own midst. How can they attack when the Pope expresses agreement? There is no need to attack at that point, only rejoice, and many of them are delighted. If you ask me what I consider a blessing, something like this: http://www.stevegershom.com/ Wonder what the "gay allies" who support Francis think about a fellow like this... No, he has them on the defensive. As in the still hate him because he's the Pope and a lot of people are demanding to know why they are so irrationally vitriolic and are actually expressing interest in things he has to say other than him letting him know that, once again, the Church finds sodomy icky. But honestly, I wouldn't expect somebody like you to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I'm definitely very excited at the great work he has been able to do in such a short time. I think he may be one of those Popes where even the non-Catholics are crying when he (Hopefully a long time from now) dies. Probably not. I have faith in the capacity of the professionally faithful to find a way to ruin this. The lower level movers and shakers of your Church. The apologists. The EWTN crowed. Thrive on feeling victimized and persecuted. They won't stand a popular Pope. They'll find a way to ruin this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Exactly what I suggested, it's the startlement of going into a boxing match with your opponent standing with his hands to his side. Your viscerally hostile friends can no longer justify their hatred, because Francis has taken a step towards their corner. No, because he's called their bluff. Don't think about it too hard. Like I said, you're not going to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apteka Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 No, he has them on the defensive. As in the still hate him because he's the Pope and a lot of people are demanding to know why they are so irrationally vitriolic and are actually expressing interest in things he has to say other than him letting him know that, once again, the Church finds sodomy icky. But honestly, I wouldn't expect somebody like you to understand. I understand your point, it's just lame. You're saying we should be happy that the irrationally vitriolic can't attack Francis because he is expressing agreement with them. Woo-hoo. The point is these folks are not going to change their life style because of anything that Francis has said, since again, he is expressing agreement. The interest is in him skating on thin ice near the Catholic lake. For the first time a Pope is found who may actually overturn Catholic moral teaching, "how fascinating!" "Totally!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I'm definitely very excited at the great work he has been able to do in such a short time. I think he may be one of those Popes where even the non-Catholics are crying when he (Hopefully a long time from now) dies. In the just over six months that he has been pope I have not seen Francis do anything, that is, unless you count his media junkets and attending the festivities at World Youth Day, but that event was planned long before he was elected bishop of Rome in March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I understand your point, it's just lame. You're saying we should be happy that the irrationally vitriolic can't attack Francis because he is expressing agreement with them. Woo-hoo. Nope. Try again. This time consider the possibility that those anti-clerics attack the Church on matters other than homosexuality and abortion. I know that as somebody of sodomocentric worldview it may be difficult to imagine that somebody might go for hours, or even days, at a time without thinking intensely about sodomy. But it does happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Probably not. I have faith in the capacity of the professionally faithful to find a way to ruin this. The lower level movers and shakers of your Church. The apologists. The EWTN crowed. Thrive on feeling victimized and persecuted. They won't stand a popular Pope. They'll find a way to ruin this. Every Apologist I've been a fan of for years (Including the EWTN ones) have had nothing but good to say about Pope Francis. Heck, even Michael Voris has been parading the greatness of Pope Francis (Which I admit shocked me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 In the just over six months that he has been pope I have not seen Francis do anything, that is, unless you count his media junkets and attending the festivities at World Youth Day, but that event was planned long before he was elected bishop of Rome in March. He doesn't have to have National Catholicism Is Awesome Day to have done something. He's made a lot of people warm up to the Church, and he hasn't strayed even slightly on any Catholic issues. He's simply using the approach our culture needs in order to listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 In the just over six months that he has been pope I have not seen Francis do anything, that is, unless you count his media junkets and attending the festivities at World Youth Day, but that event was planned long before he was elected bishop of Rome in March. What did Benedict do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 What did Benedict do? He issued a lot of teaching documents, made appointments to the Curia, and held consistories of the Cardinals, and other things associated with his office, etc.; while Pope Francis has only just started to make changes in the Curia that he was elected to reform. Both Benedict and Pope John Paul II made more changes in the Curia in the first six months of their pontificates, but then they were not busy giving press interviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted September 21, 2013 Author Share Posted September 21, 2013 I find it interesting that there seems to be a lot of people who are annoyed that the Pope isn't catering to them, and their interests. The same sorts of people who got mad when the so-called "liberals" had the same reaction to Benedict. The choir had our pope ministering to their desires - Benedict. Every pope is going to emphasize different things, have different pet projects, and resonate strongly with different people. Why does it have to be such a huge deal that Francis hasn't decided to cater to our immediate whims? Why do we have to be so selfish for the Holy Father's attention? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 He issued a lot of teaching documents, made appointments to the Curia, and held consistories of the Cardinals, and other things associated with his office, etc.; while Pope Francis has only just started to make changes in the Curia that he was elected to reform. Both Benedict and Pope John Paul II made more changes in the Curia in the first six months of their pontificates, but then they were not busy giving press interviews. I see. So rather than plugging the hole in the Titanic they did a great job rearranging the deck chairs. Sounds legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apteka Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 (edited) Nope. Try again. This time consider the possibility that those anti-clerics attack the Church on matters other than homosexuality and abortion. I know that as somebody of sodomocentric worldview it may be difficult to imagine that somebody might go for hours, or even days, at a time without thinking intensely about sodomy. But it does happen. edited by moderator: personal attack -- cmariadiaz Edited September 21, 2013 by cmariadiaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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