Interview With Pope Francis In America Magazine

[4588686]

 

When the enemy is at the bridge, we need to shore up our defenses, not divert them elsewhere.  If we let the enemy cross this bridge, there will only be more disaster (unless you have a trap ready once the bridge is crossed, in which case you'd better pray and make sure your gamble works). 

 

 

Maybe Pope Francis doesn't view gay people and gay allies as 'the enemy.'

[PhuturePriest]

Maybe Pope Francis doesn't view gay people and gay allies as 'the enemy.'

 

Perhaps, rather, he simply sees them as souls needing reached out to and given the Gospel message of love and salvation? It's really a matter of tactics on conversion (I don't like calling it that, but in a sense that's what it is). People are a lot more willing to give up things they are dear to if they strongly believe in the cause that demands them to. Simply saying "Hey, you can't have sex with your bro over there anymore." isn't likely to go well unless they understand why and are made to understand that they aren't just giving up something because old men in cool robes think they should.

[Apotheoun]

I agree with Hasan, because people afflicted with homosexual desires are not enemies of the Church; instead, they are human beings created in the image of God in need of the graces that come from God through the Church in order to heal human brokenness, and in the process of that healing the divine likeness lost through disordered passions and sinful actions is restored and deification is the end result.

[Apteka]

Gay people see the Church as the enemy

[Apotheoun]

Gay people see the Church as the enemy

And those that see the Church in that way are mistaken.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Apotheoun

[4588686]

Perhaps, rather, he simply sees them as souls needing reached out to and given the Gospel message of love and salvation? It's really a matter of tactics on conversion (I don't like calling it that, but in a sense that's what it is). People are a lot more willing to give up things they are dear to if they strongly believe in the cause that demands them to. Simply saying "Hey, you can't have sex with your bro over there anymore." isn't likely to go well unless they understand why and are made to understand that they aren't just giving up something because old men in cool robes think they should.

 

 

Jesus didn't say a thing about gay people.  He condemned usury in very strong terms.  Most gay teenage Catholics feel a lot more besieged and condemned by the religious right than most payday loan store owners.  Clearly something is out of wrack here.  

 

i don't know why you all are obsessed with sodomy and abortion.  But to the rest of the world it seems creepy and weird.  2,000 years of institutional history and all you all have to say to the world is 'gay marriage isn't cool and neither is abortion, also don't use condoms.'  That's odd.  And shallow.  Pope Francis seems to get that.  Even though he's opposed to those things as well.  

[Apotheoun]

Jesus didn't say a thing about gay people.  He condemned usury in very strong terms.  Most gay teenage Catholics feel a lot more besieged and condemned by the religious right than most payday loan store owners.  Clearly something is out of wrack here.  

 

i don't know why you all are obsessed with sodomy and abortion.  But to the rest of the world it seems creepy and weird.  2,000 years of institutional history and all you all have to say to the world is 'gay marriage isn't cool and neither is abortion, also don't use condoms.'  That's odd.  And shallow.  Pope Francis seems to get that.  Even though he's opposed to those things as well.  

Christ does mention usury in His parables, but He never condemns it explicitly. In fact the servant who buried his master's money was the one who got in trouble.

[Apteka]

Jesus didn't say a thing about gay people.  

 

Jesus didn't say a thing about pedophiles either

[4588686]

Gay people see the Church as the enemy

 

 

I've seen a lot of friends, who are vocally gay and fervent gay rights activists, praising Pope Francis.  They are well aware that he still feels that their behavior is immoral.  Crawl out of your cave.  recognize a blessing when it's given to you.  

[PhuturePriest]

Jesus didn't say a thing about gay people.  He condemned usury in very strong terms.  Most gay teenage Catholics feel a lot more besieged and condemned by the religious right than most payday loan store owners.  Clearly something is out of wrack here.  

 

i don't know why you all are obsessed with sodomy and abortion.  But to the rest of the world it seems creepy and weird.  2,000 years of institutional history and all you all have to say to the world is 'gay marriage isn't cool and neither is abortion, also don't use condoms.'  That's odd.  And shallow.  Pope Francis seems to get that.  Even though he's opposed to those things as well.  

 

Pope Francis basically understands we can't just focus on three things. There are more issues in the world than three things, and our main mission statement is to preach the Gospel and tell people about why Jesus and Catholicism are so awesome.

[Apotheoun]

i don't know why you all are obsessed with sodomy and abortion.  

It is modern culture that is obsessed with homosexuality and abortion. The Church - in the face of that modern obsession - can only respond by condemning culturally endorsed immorality.

[Apteka]

I've seen a lot of friends, who are vocally gay and fervent gay rights activists, praising Pope Francis.  They are well aware that he still feels that their behavior is immoral.  Crawl out of your cave.  recognize a blessing when it's given to you.  

 

Blessing? Hmm...

[4588686]

Blessing? Hmm...

 

 

Pope Francis has gotten more anti-clerics, an those generally hostile to religious institutions, sympathetic and more anti-theists on the defensive in the last few months than I'd ever seen.

 

If you all can't recognize a blessing when it's dropped into your lap then the Church deserves to continue to sink into irrelevancy.  

[4588686]

I've seen tons of friends who are viscerally hostile to religion talking about how maybe Pope Francis has something to say to them.  I've seen, for the first time, the Dawkins wannabes on the defensive and having to really justify their hostility to other secularists.  

 

You all have, for the first time in my adult life, a Pope who can do something besides preach to the choir.  

 

It's going to be exciting to see how the more reactionary elements of the conservative wing will torpedo this and hasten the Church's sinking into irrelevancy.  

[Apteka]

Pope Francis has gotten more anti-clerics, an those generally hostile to religious institutions, sympathetic and more anti-theists on the defensive in the last few months than I'd ever seen.

 

If you all can't recognize a blessing when it's dropped into your lap then the Church deserves to continue to sink into irrelevancy.  

 

Francis has them on the defensive? Perhaps only in the sense that the Church was once seen as an enemy across the battlefield, is now being found among their own midst. How can they attack when the Pope expresses agreement? There is no need to attack at that point, only rejoice, and many of them are delighted.

 

If you ask me what I consider a blessing, something like this:

 

http://www.stevegershom.com/

 

Wonder what the "gay allies" who support Francis think about a fellow like this...