Apotheoun Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I think that Pope Benedict's efforts to safeguard the Roman Church's liturgy by getting a faithful translation in standard English are probably doomed. If the English language commonly spoken by the general population eventually succumbs to this linguistic political ideology (i.e., inclusive language), the Church's liturgy will become basically nonsensical to the common man and the Church will have a very hard time making its teaching understandable to anyone but the most devout and zealous members of the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 No, we both are. Your views on the new uses for "they" and "their" are from the 1980s, and it was one of the means proposed to avoid using the generic masculine. Like I said, I've been dealing with this since before you were born. You continue to misunderstand what I have been saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 You continue to misunderstand what I have been saying. Maybe what you are saying makes no sense. :smile3: I will continue to use "they" and "their" in the standard way, and you may do as you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 :rolleyes: I tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Do or do not. There is no try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 we must revert to the natural anglo-saxon words, the influence of the Normans imposing their will on the English language for political motivations was not natural!!!!! languages don't evolve "naturally" or "unnaturally"... many complex factors change the way people speak, including political factors, and it's always been that way. feminist linguists are no different than Norman conquerors in that regard. the attempt to get rid of generic masculines was based upon an idea, largely basing its logic on the now more discredited Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, that changing the way people spoke would change the way gender worked. That idea is now considered pretty ridiculous and wrong, of course, for some of the languages that have the most "gender neutral" constructions have some of the worst sexist/oppressive societies, and vice versa... but it doesn't really matter if they were right, they succeeded to a large degree. and because they were wrong, there's not really much of a reason to care, though I do prefer the stylistic choice of generic terms in many instances, especially the use of the term "man" instead of "human" (as in Star Trek or the Declaration of Independence, for instance)... but on pronouns, they really did succeed quite well. but because Sapir-Whorf is clearly faulty logic, it doesn't really matter so much on that pronoun level. Apo, you're a bit too old to have experienced it, but I grew up in the generations where it was not normal to use the generic masculine in pronouns. people in my generation sometimes understand it, but don't normally use it, they normal replace singular pronouns with plural pronouns even speaking about singular people. young people like me and Nihil grew up with this, so we know much better through personal experience with the younger generations, but if you don't believe us you can tunnel into Nihil's document dump for specific proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I admit that I have never really run into more traditionally minded Catholics who are as willing to accept this type of change as you appear to be, but maybe this is just another sign of the ongoing disintegration of the Catholic west. Traditional-minded Catholic does not conform to pre-determined conceptions of left and right = UNRAVELING OF CIVILIZATION, POSSIBLE COLLAPSE OF TIME/SPACE CONTINUUM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Don't we already have two people in that role? Yes. Already overstaffed. Question is: firings, or retirement without replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 toast lands jelly-side down. civilization is lost. also, the terrorists have won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apteka Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 We live in a time where Popes have been blessed by shaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) Traditional-minded Catholic does not conform to pre-determined conceptions of left and right = UNRAVELING OF CIVILIZATION, POSSIBLE COLLAPSE OF TIME/SPACE CONTINUUM Of course they should not worry about politics, but they should worry about the unraveling of civilization, after all the Church has been the guardian of civilization, and they also should support tradition, but alas tradition in the Roman Church has been replaced with directives issued from the magisterium. I know it is hard for you, after all your Church's tradition only goes back to 1969. Edited October 8, 2013 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) toast lands jelly-side down. civilization is lost. also, the terrorists have won. We are already in a post-Christian world. The Church should be redoubling its efforts to convert people to Christianity, but of course Pope Francis is opposed to that, while also working to leaven the neo-pagan culture within which we live with Christian values. Edited October 8, 2013 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
add Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) the West (Mankind) will find its way - rejoice in the family Edited October 8, 2013 by add Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apteka Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 the West (Mankind) will find its way - rejoice in the family The West is not mankind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 People used to be civilised. They didn't tear people apart using straps attached to horses. They didn't raid villages, rape all the women and kill all the males old enough to piss standing up. There were no punishments that involved disembowelment, with the intestines removed, piled on the victim's face, or set afire. I have to wonder just how unbelievably out of touch with history someone has to be to think these times are any different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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