Legionaries Of Christ

[ForeverLillian]

Does anyone know anything about them?

 

Since I am discerning I am looking for a spiritual director. I'm very nervous because about beginning the process though, but I know it has to be done.

 

Well, a couple weeks ago I was in confession and it was a tough month for me. I poured out all my sins and at one point while the priest was asking me questions and counseling me, he asked if I had a spiritual director and I said no. He offered if I'd be okay with it to perhaps be my spiritual director and I wrote down his email to contact him. I found out he was a Legionary of Christ.

 

I'm going to ask a older layman who I very much admire and respect his opinion, being also the Director of Religious Education of a parish not to far away and the Minister of the Newman club I am apart of. Since he may know locally the priests there. Maybe even the Vocation Directress of a Order I am going to look into discerning with since they are very traditional (Novus Ordo but traditional) and are around the area as well).

 

But I have only heard bad things about the Legionaries of Christ...And one priest I met who was one was coocky...But I can't judge them all because of that. And maybe that was a sign that I should take up the offer and at least try it out, in particular since he already knows some of my short comings and struggles via confession.

 

Advice?

 

I hope this is the right place to put this.

[God's Beloved]

Are you  speaking about the Regnum Christi for women ?

[Julie de Sales]

I don't know them personally, but I listened to a priest from this congregation in Italy speaking about vocations and it was very good. He also directed many young people in their vocation and the pieces of advice that he gave were appropriate and helped me a lot. So, my opinion is that you should accept his offer because even if his congregation had some problems (I don't know very much about it, most about the founder) there can be holy priests who follow Christ faithfully. It's up to you to decide. :)

[ForeverLillian]

Are you  speaking about the Regnum Christi for women ?

 

No, the priest who offered to be my spiritual director is a Legionary. The Order I'm discerning with right now is not Regnum Christi, but religious sisters.

 

I don't know them personally, but I listened to a priest from this congregation in Italy speaking about vocations and it was very good. He also directed many young people in their vocation and the pieces of advice that he gave were appropriate and helped me a lot. So, my opinion is that you should accept his offer because even if his congregation had some problems (I don't know very much about it, most about the founder) there can be holy priests who follow Christ faithfully. It's up to you to decide. :)

 

Thanks! I shall seek more advice, pray on it, and make a final decision. I'm more leaning on at least trying it, since I feel like it's possibly a sign from God to give me a spiritual direction which I need. But, I want to make sure before I make that move. Thank you for the positive advice :)

[ToJesusMyHeart]

My favorite priest, Fr. Michael Sullivan, is a Legionary.

[NotreDame]

ForeverLillian,

I think you are asking the wrong question, or asking the right question the wrong way.  You keep using the word "judging" (really we shouldn't be judging anyone) when what you are instead asking is:  

A) Does being a LC priest make him automatically an unqualified SD

and not unrelated...

B) given all the problems with the LC, is it prudent to go to one for SD

(note that these are both practical assessments, not personal judgements of the priests)

How does one gauge the first?   To quote Garrigou-Lagrange:

'St. Francis de Sales says on the subject of a director: "He must be a man of charity, learning, and prudence; if anyone of these three qualities be wanting in him, there is danger." (22) St. Teresa expresses the same opinion.(23)'

The St Francis de Sales writing he references is in the early chapters of Introduction to the Devout Life.

You can see that choosing an actual SD is a very serious matter (Both St Francis and GL emphasise this), especially if you are going to take the approach of trusting them and giving them a certain degree of obedience in your spiritual life, as St Francis recomends.  

So going back to the LC, if you review their history they have had very serious problems from the beginning.  These began with the founder, but were independent of him since they were quickly institutionalized within the group, beginning with discernment and recruitment.  Many bishops have even taken the unusual step of restricting LC and Regnum Christi activity within their diocese.  If you want more detail, PM me.

So, in this context, given the importance of properly choosing an SD in light of all the problems in the formation and governance of the LC:

Does being an LC priest make him automatically an unqualified SD?   It doesn't automatically, but it certainly could.  

Given all the problems with the LC, is it prudent to go to one for SD?  If you can't easily answer the first question, then that gives you the answer to this, the second question.

I don't want to give a personal opinion beyond the above since I don't know you or the priest.  I'll just say that it's very dangerous to make these kind of decisions based on very subjective judgements like whether you "like" someone or find them to be a "good person."  

I've seen people get in trouble by personalizing these things.   The fact that you have already shared so much personal information with him means there is likely an affinity that could affect your ability to separate the individual from his office and arrive at the right, objective decision.  Do try to keep that in mind moving forward.  
 

[freedomreigns]

There are good holy and faithful priests who are in congregations which have been troubled.  I don't think it fair to lump all of them together.

[beatitude]

It's not fair to lump them all together, but given the many problems there have been with the Legion, particularly their aggressive recruitment practices (and I have personal experience of a Legionary priest whom I'd never met before in my life trying to push me into Regnum Christi), I think it's reasonable to recommend that you only ask a Legionary priest to be your spiritual director if you know him well already and have seen that he has the right qualities. Given my experience and the experience of many others (the aggressive recruitment wasn't just a one-off thing here and there - it's well-documented by investigating Vatican officials) I wouldn't just approach a Legionary centre and ask them to assign me a spiritual director. I would also be a little cautious if any priest offered to be my spiritual director on our first meeting, and a meeting in the confessional at that...

Edited September 14, 2013 by beatitude

[NotreDame]

 Given my experience and the experience of many others (the aggressive recruitment wasn't just a one-off thing here and there - it's well-documented by investigating Vatican officials) I wouldn't just approach a Legionary centre and ask them to assign me a spiritual director. I would also be a little cautious if any priest offered to be my spiritual director on our first meeting, and a meeting in the confessional at that...

 

 

I'm more leaning on at least trying it, since I feel like it's possibly a sign from God to give me a spiritual direction which I need.

 

With regard to being overly available for spiritual direction, rather than a "sign from God" I'd be on the lookout for Beatitude's concern about aggressive recruitment.  This in particular was a reason many bishops banned LC/RC from giving any SD within their dioceses.

 

There are good holy and faithful priests who are in congregations which have been troubled.  I don't think it fair to lump all of them together.

 

Nobody should be "lumped all together", which I didn't see anybody doing, btw, but neither should they be judged by us at all in terms of their goodness or holiness. 

 

Nevertheless, individuals have to determine a prudent course of action in order to follow God's will and that involves gauging the qualities of an SD. 

 

According to the Doctors of the Church quoted above, being good, holy, and faithful are not enough by themselves to qualify as a good SD.  You could be all three and be charitable, but not prudent or learned. 

 

In fact, if you have had a poor formation, as is quite likely in a troubled congegration where all formation (SD, Classes, etc.) is in-house as is the case with the LC, then it's very fair to ask whether one's prudence or intellectual foundation were impacted during their 8+ years in formation - formation usually beginning at a young, malleable age. 

[freedomreigns]

A Legionarie wrote "The Better Part" which is a book of meditations on the Gospels which is a very good resource for meditation on the Scriptures.  I am sure there are other examples of good fruit from individual members of the LC.

 

 I just think that while it might be good to be cautious about the person's qualifications to offer spiritual direction, and I have personally been in choosing my own spiritual director, it is also good to examine the person based on the person.  In the opposite direction if the order is known to be solid that does not necessarily mean that each member would be able to give good direction.   

[AccountDeleted]

Does anyone here have concerns about one's Confessor also being one's spiritual director? I know I have tried to keep these two separate but perhaps others have had no problem with this? The Confessor is not supposed to ever mention what was said in the Confessional (in fact is supposed to forget it) but he can't help himself from remembering these things if he is also acting as SD. I tried it briefly and the priest told me he could only discuss something said in Confession if I told him about it again during SD, but tell me, over a long period of time, how is he going to keep it straight in his mind what I said at what time?

 

Anyway, maybe no one else has a problem with this - but I keep these two roles separate now. Just a thought.

[ACS67]

Does anyone here have concerns about one's Confessor also being one's spiritual director? I know I have tried to keep these two separate but perhaps others have had no problem with this? The Confessor is not supposed to ever mention what was said in the Confessional (in fact is supposed to forget it) but he can't help himself from remembering these things if he is also acting as SD. I tried it briefly and the priest told me he could only discuss something said in Confession if I told him about it again during SD, but tell me, over a long period of time, how is he going to keep it straight in his mind what I said at what time?

 

Anyway, maybe no one else has a problem with this - but I keep these two roles separate now. Just a thought.

I was told while visiting the Carmelite Nuns in Christoval that the monastery chaplain cannot be the confessor or spiritual director.  The prioress said she thought it was canon law but was not certain of that.  I had never heard that before.  I just assumed that the chaplain who said Mass for the Sisters everyday also heard their confessions and was their spiritual director.  Nope.  Another priest came in to hear confessions for them every 2 weeks even though their chaplain lived less than a half a mile away.  :)

[AccountDeleted]

I was told while visiting the Carmelite Nuns in Christoval that the monastery chaplain cannot be the confessor or spiritual director.  The prioress said she thought it was canon law but was not certain of that.  I had never heard that before.  I just assumed that the chaplain who said Mass for the Sisters everyday also heard their confessions and was their spiritual director.  Nope.  Another priest came in to hear confessions for them every 2 weeks even though their chaplain lived less than a half a mile away.  :)

 

 

Carmelites actually have a rule against having the same Confessor and Chaplain. This has to do with St Teresa not wanting the chaplain to know everything about what was happening in the community. In all the Carmels I have lived, they followed this rule.

 

I was just wondering if anyone not in Carmel felt the same way. It came to my notice when I had a Confessor who was also my SD. After a few times with him as SD, I switched to another Confessor because of the awkwardness of trying to keep straight what I had told him in Confession and what I had said when receiving spiritual direction.

[ACS67]

Oh I see. 

 

You might right about the Carmelites.  Although the Carmelites in Christoval are O.Carm and would not necessarily be following St. Teresa of Avila's advise on matters, however, maybe they did take that into consideration.  Or maybe that rule was already in place when St. Teresa entered Carmel. Either way I think it is a good "rule" to have.  I do not use my parish priest for my confessor.  I go to another priest. 

[AccountDeleted]

Oh I see. 

 

You might right about the Carmelites.  Although the Carmelites in Christoval are O.Carm and would not necessarily be following St. Teresa of Avila's advise on matters, however, maybe they did take that into consideration.  Or maybe that rule was already in place when St. Teresa entered Carmel. Either way I think it is a good "rule" to have.  I do not use my parish priest for my confessor.  I go to another priest. 

 

 

You make an interesting point about the OCarms - hadn't thought about it like that. I have a friend who is an OCarm Prioress so I might ask her about this. I haven't read their Constitutions so don't know if they have the same rule about it.

 

The OCarms I know are still pretty connected to St Teresa and St John, even though they weren't part of the Reform. The book I am reading, Springs of Carmel, not only covers Elijah and the early hermits on Mt Carmel, but goes into the bios of Teresa, John, Teresa Benedicta, Titus Brandsma and of course spends a lot of time on Our Lady. I think there is more in common between the OCarm and the OCD than there are differences these days.