GeorgiiMichael Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) http://thetablet.co.uk/latest-news/5651 Pope Francis has temporarily stopped the practice of naming priests "honorary prelates", which allows them to take the title "monsignor". Thoughts? Edited September 13, 2013 by GeorgiiMichael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 The pope can do what he wants. Eastern Orthodox give honorific titles to priests all the time, and chant "Axios" when they do so. :saint2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 That would be weird if the title of "Monsignor" was wiped out permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 That would be weird if the title of "Monsignor" was wiped out permanently. The next pope, even if Pope Francis decides to get rid of it "permanently", can reinstate its usage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyAnn Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Maybe I'm just really dense, but what does the title monsignor even mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Maybe I'm just really dense, but what does the title monsignor even mean? It means "my lord." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyAnn Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 It means "my lord." I mean in terms of the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I think it makes a lot of sense with what he's doing. He's trying to scale back the "massive shiny authoritarian" idea of church hierarchy for a more "poor pastor who smells of his sheep" idea of church hierarchy. He's not getting rid of it. He's just not making any himself. Monsignor is just a special title that is an honorary designation. It's like a reward for doing extra credit. Usually they've done something important or do something important or whatever. I think they used to be associated with older priests with a lot of experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneLine Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Actually, for many years it wasn't given out.... only in the last few has it begun to be re-emerging... I'm thinking after Pope JPII left office. I don't think many (any?) around here took place during his pontificate. But it could also have been a change of bishops in my diocese... we got a new bishop at almost the same time. And at least in my diocese, it really seems to be used as a 'reward' for taking on jobs no one wants to do, or for those who are about to retire. It's become like a gold watch.... and I don't see much use for it myself. (Of course, if I were a priest, I might feel differently). But it really doesn't seem to have much significance... kind of like being the senior member of an office, but not upper management. I don't think it brings a pay raise or better retirement benefits... one can wear a pretty colored cassock and take precedence at functions, but yeah, it doesn't seem to fit in with the sort of things Pope Francis is advocating..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneLine Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Exactly, Basilisa Marie... you said what I said but far more eloquently... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Bahahaha I was going to say the same thing about you. :) Anywho, I think it'd be a great thing to use as a "gold watch" upon retirement, to designate someone that younger priests can really look to for guidance or something. But it seems to me that nowadays it's more like a reward for doing something cool, rather than a "gold watch" type of thing. So it makes sense to me to scale it back, at least for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) I think it makes a lot of sense with what he's doing. He's trying to scale back the "massive shiny authoritarian" idea of church hierarchy for a more "poor pastor who smells of his sheep" idea of church hierarchy. He's not getting rid of it. He's just not making any himself. Monsignor is just a special title that is an honorary designation. It's like a reward for doing extra credit. Usually they've done something important or do something important or whatever. I think they used to be associated with older priests with a lot of experience. Maybe it is just a difference in Eastern and Western approach to honorific titles, but they do not give a priest more authority; instead, they are given in order to recognize a priest's contributions to the Church (e.g., his long years of service to his flock). Edited September 13, 2013 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) Maybe it is just a difference in Eastern and Western approach to honorific titles, but they do not give a priest more authority; instead, they are given in order to recognize a priest's contributions to the Church (e.g., his long years of service to his flock). Oh, yeah, definitely - they don't really give a priest more authority either (as far as I'm aware), I was just thinking that it could be used as a way to recognize a priest who is a worthy source of wisdom for younger priests. More like recognizing something that is already there, rather than conferring something new. I think giving out a lot of honorific titles for doing good works, rather than what I described in the above paragraph, helps to bolster the idea that priests are part of some higher, untouchable class, separate from the lowly, dirty workings of the laity. As a part of a much bigger whole, if you will. As for a pope who is trying to emphasize humility in a particular way, it makes sense. Edited September 13, 2013 by Basilisa Marie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Oh, yeah, definitely - they don't really give a priest more authority either (as far as I'm aware), I was just thinking that it could be used as a way to recognize a priest who is a worthy source of wisdom for younger priests. More like recognizing something that is already there, rather than conferring something new. I see what you are saying, and I agree. Honors should be conferred because the priest has done something worthy of that type of recognition. In the East an honor (even ordination to the priesthood itself) is met by the chanting of the word "Axios!" (he is worthy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneLine Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) Yes. Too often it seems to be ... Fr. J just completed XXXX (the job no one wanted to do) so now we'll claim him as Msgr J. One was the priest who was the axe man who dealt with a bunch of grumpy parishioners who had their parishes closed. I don't think that is exactly the kind of thing it was intended for.. and the particular guy... well... not my idea of an example to ANYONE of what I want a priest to be. Sad but true. Sometimes it seems to be given out when they take someone OUT of a parish because the parishioners are so unhappy.. .he gets titled into a behind-the-scenes-job. Again, not what it was intended for. Again, sad but true. I'd love it if it were because the priests were 'Axios-ful' but doesn't seem to be happening in practice.... I think that WAS the intent originally.... Edited September 13, 2013 by AnneLine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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