4588686 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Many Catholics have been more catholic than some of the historical Popes. I don't claim that for myself though. yes, you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apteka Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 yes, you do. Whatever rocks your boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Whatever rocks your boat You rock my boat, baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apteka Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 You rock my boat, baby. I get that a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (logs onto Phatmass) (reads topic) Well, duh. (skips thread) The media are a wee bit late on the uptake here. I guess their next breaking story is going to be on the Church's new encyclical, "Humanae Vitae." (bye bye) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apteka Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 (logs onto Phatmass) (reads topic) Well, duh. (skips thread) The media are a wee bit late on the uptake here. I guess their next breaking story is going to be on the Church's new encyclical, "Humanae Vitae." (bye bye) Excellent contribution, ty for stopping by. Perhaps you missed the part about the Pope encouraging salvation through conscience. Till next time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Congratulations, you are more Catholic than the Pope There have been plenty of times in history when various men (perhaps even most of the members of the Church) have been more Catholic than the pope (e.g., St. Eutychius was more Catholic than Pope Vigilius, and St. Maximos the Confessor was more Catholic than the heretic Pope Honorius, and practically every person living in Europe was more Catholic than Pope John XII, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicsAreKewl Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 I believe he's point is that following one's conscience will put one on the path to salvation. That God's mercy is available to all whom seek Him out for it, even atheists. But he does not contradict the Church's doctrine on no salvation outside the Church, nor does he contradict himself when he stated one cannot have Christ without the Church. Because if one cannot have true faith in Christ without the Church one cannot have salvation with Christ. Saint Paul's divinely revealed words remain true, without faith there is no pleasing God. An atheist who seeks out God's mercy is no longer an atheist. I'm very confused. Saint Paul is a beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apteka Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 An atheist who seeks out God's mercy is no longer an atheist. I'm very confused. Saint Paul is a beer. It was Knight's attempt to render the Pope's words as orthodox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 An atheist who seeks out God's mercy is no longer an atheist. I'm very confused. Saint Paul is a beer. Exactly. An atheist is just a person and a person first, and Saint Paul is a person. Any person can seek God's mercy no matter how they have lived their live their life prior to moment of realization. This is the point, God can and will forgive all that seek forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) God's mercy is limitless Knight, one need only follow their conscience. Even an Atheist who does not seek faith can have hope in that, if there turns out to be a heaven, they can still make it if they sincerely obeyed the dictates of their conscience. Concepts like "faith," "Christ," "church" play not part in the answer. The Pope hath announced it to the world, and the worldly rejoice! Read it again... and maybe even twice... Here it is from the Vatican's own site:"Above all, you ask if the God of Christians forgives those who do not believe and who do not seek faith. Given the premise, and this is fundamental, that the mercy of God is limitless for those who turn to him with a sincere and contrite heart, the issue for the unbeliever lies in obeying his or her conscience. There is sin, even for those who have no faith, when conscience is not followed. Listening to and obeying conscience means deciding in the face of what is understood to be good or evil. It is on the basis of this choice that the goodness or evil of our actions is determined."http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/letters/2013/documents/papa-francesco_20130911_eugenio-scalfari_en.html "Without conscience it is impossible to please God"... didn't Paul say something like that? Eh, who cares I don't agree with your Debbie downer interpretation and I shall not no matter how many times I read it. He doesn't say conscience saves a man, he says God's mercy is limitless for those who turn to him with a sincere and contrite heart. He says that one can sin against conscience and that is true even for atheists. Edited September 19, 2013 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfink Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 The past presentation of the Church was similar to that of Noah's Ark. One's salvation really depended on being a formal unified member of the Church, which the reception of all the sacraments. The Apostles and early Church made great efforts to *convert* Pagans to Christianity. Where is conversion today? The Catholic Church no longer seeks to convert because it no longer believes itself to be the truth. It is just one way among many other ways. So if you're an Atheist, don't bother being Catholic, just follow your conscience, remember God is merciful, and you'll have a good shot of being in heaven with Catholics, Hindus, and Jews! Tell that to the countless people who are in RCIA because other Catholics suggested it to them. ;) Like, for example, my girlfriend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 It was Knight's attempt to render the Pope's words as orthodox. No u, by joining the enemies of the Church and adopting their misinterpretation of what the Pope stated. I agree and do wish the Pope would cease making off the cuff statements. Because it makes it easy for Satan, the media and misled souls like yourself to twist and pervert what was actually stated into something that was not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 I really hate how my phone types. It doesn't keep up at all and jumps all over the place when I'm typing. Makes me look drunk when I'm not. @@ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicsAreKewl Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) Exactly. An atheist is just a person and a person first, and Saint Paul is a person. Any person can seek God's mercy no matter how they have lived their live their life prior to moment of realization. This is the point, God can and will forgive all that seek forgiveness. No, St. Paul is a beer: My, how the mighty have fallen! Edited September 19, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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