Apteka Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 "Francis, who has won praise for spontaneous and unusual moves during his six month papacy, wrote a lengthy letter to a newspaper, La Repubblica, which the Italian daily printed over four pages, including page one, under the simple byline "Francesco". "God forgives those who obey their conscience," he wrote in the unprecedented letter, the latest example of the markedly different tone and style from his predecessors that he has set since being elected in March. "The 76-year-old pontiff was responding to editorials written in July and August by Eugenio Scalfari, an agnostic and the paper's founder, in which he was asked whether "the Christian God forgives those who do not believe and do not seek faith". Mr Scalfari said he had not expected the South American pope to respond "so extensively and so affectionately, with such fraternal spirit". The Pope wrote: "The question for those who do not believe in God is to follow their own conscience. Sin, even for a non-believer, is when one goes against one's conscience. "To listen and to follow your conscience means that you understand the difference between good and evil." From: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/the-pope/10302850/Pope-Francis-reaches-out-to-atheists-and-agnostics.html The relevant Italian from his letter: "Innanzi tutto, mi chiede se il Dio dei cristiani perdona chi non crede e non cerca la fede. Premesso che - ed è la cosa fondamentale - la misericordia di Dio non ha limiti se ci si rivolge a lui con cuore sincero e contrito, la questione per chi non crede in Dio sta nell'obbedire alla propria coscienza." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AugustineA Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Interestingg.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 read the transcript. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Yet another case of the media twisting the words of the Holy Father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 "BREAKING NEWS THE POPE SAID THIS THING AND IT MEANS ANOTHER THING AND THE OTHER THING AND MILEY CYRUS" Like, that is literally...they will title it one thing and it will be something else. I really hate the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ryan Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I was always under the impression that with Post-Vatican II theology the salvation of non-Christians was commonsensical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I think the media do a good job of keeping the Holy Father in the news. He always come across looking good no matter what they write - and the media always looks confused. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apteka Posted September 12, 2013 Author Share Posted September 12, 2013 I was always under the impression that with Post-Vatican II theology the salvation of non-Christians was commonsensical. The past presentation of the Church was similar to that of Noah's Ark. One's salvation really depended on being a formal unified member of the Church, which the reception of all the sacraments. The Apostles and early Church made great efforts to *convert* Pagans to Christianity. Where is conversion today? The Catholic Church no longer seeks to convert because it no longer believes itself to be the truth. It is just one way among many other ways. So if you're an Atheist, don't bother being Catholic, just follow your conscience, remember God is merciful, and you'll have a good shot of being in heaven with Catholics, Hindus, and Jews! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 The past presentation of the Church was similar to that of Noah's Ark. One's salvation really depended on being a formal unified member of the Church, which the reception of all the sacraments. The Apostles and early Church made great efforts to *convert* Pagans to Christianity. Where is conversion today? The Catholic Church no longer seeks to convert because it no longer believes itself to be the truth. It is just one way among many other ways. So if you're an Atheist, don't bother being Catholic, just follow your conscience, remember God is merciful, and you'll have a good shot of being in heaven with Catholics, Hindus, and Jews! Have you read what the Pope actually wrote or are you basing your statements on news outlets? Also I could swear I've seen you recently object to Rome suppressing the idea of a personal relationship with Jesus for those outside the Church. Now you're objecting because the press makes it appear that the Pope is opening up that possibility? I don't understand you stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I like what he said...I believe it too....It all comes down to what a person knows...And only God knows someones deepest thoughts....If someone is agnostic and really doesn't know the truth only God knows if that person has followed their conscience and lived the best life they could.....This makes way more sense to me then a protestant approach of you believe and live a horrible life and go straight to Heaven....And if you don't bleieve and live a noble life you are doomed to hell no questions asked....Don't get me wrong Faith is where its at in my opinion...Because with real Faith comes Gods Grace and the strength to accept it and change your life........But one can have all the faith in the world but if they don't do anything with it it is foolish to think they are automatically better then the person who is unsure or doesn't believe but lives a honest good life and tries to follow their conscience .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 The past presentation of the Church was similar to that of Noah's Ark. One's salvation really depended on being a formal unified member of the Church, which the reception of all the sacraments. The Apostles and early Church made great efforts to *convert* Pagans to Christianity. Where is conversion today? The Catholic Church no longer seeks to convert because it no longer believes itself to be the truth. It is just one way among many other ways. So if you're an Atheist, don't bother being Catholic, just follow your conscience, remember God is merciful, and you'll have a good shot of being in heaven with Catholics, Hindus, and Jews! Do you think of yourself as a mystic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apteka Posted September 13, 2013 Author Share Posted September 13, 2013 Do you think of yourself as a mystic? Neocath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 (edited) I read three different translations of the pope's letter and either the translations were all poorly done, because the message seemed to be a convoluted mess, or his thoughts are a jumble of ideas with little interconnection. For now I will go with the former possibility. Finally, as far as belief in God goes . . . I thought it was Catholic doctrine that faith is necessary for salvation, but who knows maybe in the future faith will not be so important in Catholic theology. Edited September 14, 2013 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magdalena Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I am new here, but not new to the Faith. I must admit that I have been very confused by what I've read regarding the Holy Father's letter. One doesn't know what to believe--especially when it concerns the media. Is there an English translation of his letter? (I don't read Italian, Spanish, or much Latin.) What troubles me the most is that many people today, especially those who are always looking for something to criticize about the Church, are going to jump on this and blow it up into a monstrous mess. Any clarification would be greatly appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 What's the big deal ? An atheist may go to Heaven....Its not like we haven't known that.....Only God judges so you never knew for sure if an atheist was going to hell for non belief....And if you claimed you did you were a liar....That doesn't say a person shouldn't have faith....You need faith to be saved but some people just don't have it....So all they have is their conscience....Will they obey it or not....Only God knows.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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