Calibacy For Priests - Vatican Secretary Of State

[Era Might]

I am also not, nor have I ever been, nor do I have any interest in becoming, Orthodox. I like history and discursive reason too much, and am quite at home in Catholicism where these things are welcomed.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Era Might

[Apotheoun]

I am also not, nor have I ever been, nor do I have any interest in becoming, Orthodox. I like history and discursive reason too much, and am quite at home in Catholicism where these things are welcomed.

I am sure the Orthodox are disappointed, because what they really need is a modernist Roman Catholic in their midst.  

[Apotheoun]

Me? Protestant? lol. I think you have me confused with yourself.

My apologies. I guess I was mistaken, but I thought you left the Church for a while. I must have mistaken you for someone else. God bless.

[Era Might]

I am sure the Orthodox are disappointed, because what they really need is a modernist Roman Catholic in their midst.  

 

Yes, they need me as much as they need a uniate Melkite Catholic. :P

[Aloysius]

Yes, they need me as much as they need a uniate Melkite Catholic. :P

[attachment=3200:apply-cold-water-to-the-burned-area.jpg]

[Apotheoun]

Yes, they need me as much as they need a uniate Melkite Catholic. :P

They haven't gotten me yet, but I do seem quite welcome at the Orthodox parish near my house.

[Aloysius]

I am actually rather miaphysite in my Christology these days (chalk it up to my time with the Copts here), and of course I affirm the ontological unity between the eschatological church and the visible church.  I can acknowledge where my use of the term "human Church" may have caused some confusion in that regard, though I still think the wild associations you drew about my position were a rather obtuse response (though my use of the term obtuse may have also been motivated by an emotional indignation at your accusations), rather than dealing with the actual things I have discussed you associated them broadly with Lutheranism and Nestorianism.

 

think about how you would classify it when the Orthodox Church stopped ordaining married bishops, and then apply that to how I am talking about the "human Church" changing, ie if the Roman Church were to begin to ordain married priests again after a millenium of mandatory celibacy.

[Apteka]

Too lighten the mood I always thought this accurately captured the mood in the new Roman Church:

 

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oASYa-Wkroc[/youtube]

[Era Might]

For me this captures the mood in the (best of the) new Roman Church:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mldEybccF5g

[Apotheoun]

Era,

 

That's a fairly nice sermon, and the sentiments expressed (even with the moderate use of inclusive language) are good, but I have to admit that his vestments look more like what I remember in the Methodist Church of my youth. What ever happened to liturgical beauty in the Roman Catholic Church?  Still . . . overall a nice message.

 

God grant you many years,

Todd

[Nihil Obstat]

A decent book, but IMO there was not enough in terms of serious liturgical scholarship. Much better are Laszlo Dobszay's two books: The Bugnini Liturgy and the Reform of the Reform, and Restoration and Organic Development of the Roman Rite.

[Jaime]

For the first 1200 years, it was the discipline to allow married men to be priests.  The Church continued to grow.  If the discipline ever changes back, I doubt it will stop Her growth.

 

 

 

But what the hell do I know?

[Apotheoun]

The Roman Church, prior to the final establishment of the law of clerical celibacy at the First Lateran Council, did ordain married men to all three of the higher levels of the clergy, but the Roman Church also required perfect and perpetual continence of married clerics beginning sometime in the late 3rd century (see the canons of the Council of Elvira) and this practice was confirmed by decrees of various popes during the 4th century (most prominently Pope St. Siricius). Moreover, perpetual clerical continence (as opposed to the Eastern Christian practice of liturgical continence) was confirmed again in the West in the canons of the various North African synods held during the time of St. Augustine, and those canons entered into the normative canonical tradition of the West at some point after the death of St. Augustine in the 5th century. The North African canons extended perfect and perpetual continence to even several of the lower ranks of the clergy (i.e., to the minor orders).

[Jaime]

The Roman Church, prior to the final establishment of the law of clerical celibacy at the First Lateran Council, did ordain married men to all three of the higher levels of the clergy, but the Roman Church also required perfect and perpetual continence of married clerics beginning sometime in the late 3rd century (see the canons of the Council of Elvira) and this practice was confirmed by decrees of various popes during the 4th century (most prominently Pope St. Siricius). Moreover, perpetual clerical continence (as opposed to the Eastern Christian practice of liturgical continence) was confirmed again in the West in the canons of the various North African synods held during the time of St. Augustine, and those canons entered into the normative canonical tradition of the West at some point after the death of St. Augustine in the 5th century. The North African canons extended perfect and perpetual continence to even several of the lower ranks of the clergy (i.e., to the minor orders).

 

thanks I read that too.  My statement is correct.

[arfink]

Era,

 

That's a fairly nice sermon, and the sentiments expressed (even with the moderate use of inclusive language) are good, but I have to admit that his vestments look more like what I remember in the Methodist Church of my youth. What ever happened to liturgical beauty in the Roman Catholic Church?  Still . . . overall a nice message.

 

God grant you many years,

Todd

 

I don't see very many people patronizing the arts anymore, especially not religious art. What exactly did you expect? We don't get Sainte Chapelle anymore because, frankly, building it was France's equivalent to our Apollo Program at the time. That level of patronage doesn't exist anymore. So you get lifeless reproductions of the old, or limping and underfunded new works.