Calibacy For Priests - Vatican Secretary Of State

[Apotheoun]

That's the Orthodox experience, but I am not Orthodox and have no plans to become Orthodox. And I do not believe I need to become Orthodox to know the mind of Christ.

Yes, you sound more like a government social worker.

[Era Might]

Yes, you sound more like a government social worker.

 

Even the Byzantine emperors had government social workers. It's possible even for us.

[Apotheoun]

For Orthodox Christians the faith is inconceivable without the liturgy, for the liturgy is the embodiment of the faith. I will never forget reading St. Maximos' treatise "On Questions and Doubts" and realizing that what he describes as hell is actually very similar to what Aquinas describes as heaven. It was - needless to say - an eye opening discovery for me.

[Apotheoun]

Even the Byzantine emperors had government social workers. It's possible even for us.

Maybe you aspire to be a government bureaucrat, but I aspire to be a Christian who worships the Father, through the Son, in the power of the Holy Spirit.

[Era Might]

Maybe you aspire to be a government bureaucrat, but I aspire to be a Christian who worships the Father, through the Son, in the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

You wouldn't have made a very good subject of the Byzantine empire.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Want to get married become a deacon, there our married priests in the novus ordo. Or you could join one of the few roman catholic rites that are allowed to have married priests, one of those is the Ukranian rite.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

This isn't terribly surprising to me. In some of the Eastern churches it is already relatively common for priests to be married, and it's true that celibacy for priests has always been a matter of tradition rather than dogma.

 

I suspect that the tradition of celibate priesthood will always continue to be encouraged, especially in the Roman Catholic portions of the church, although I personally wouldn't be too concerned if this began to change.

 

 

The ukranian rite is Roman Catholic christians and there allowed married priests. And as far as i'm aware st paul became a celebant apostle/priest after his conversion, unsure whether that was the same for all the apostles, perhaps it is tradition dating back to the actual apostles, at the least saint paul, and therefore is not only traditional but also biblical.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Seems like my post did not appear. :P Anyway.

 

I think such a model, with a celibate religious priesthood and married secular priesthood, is possible, and more likely than an entirely married priesthood. It makes more sense than that, at least. But, the custom of the Roman Church for a long time has been a celibate priesthood, and all things being equal, it should remain that way. Personally, I do not think that current arguments in favour of a married priesthood are compelling enough to justify changing our customs.

 

What about bishops and Cardinals, i assume if this where to happen that Bishops and Cardinals would be chosen only from those priests whom have chosen the vowe of celibacy, and if the orders where to do so then also it must be optional to take a vow of celibacy within these orders as do our orthodox brothers.

[Lilllabettt]

Give up Era, give in to the world. At that's left is a puny idea for you, and hasn't the world already demonstrated that it's false? What confidence do you have in the Bible? What certainty that the Christ you have in your mind was the historical Christ? There is no meaning to this life, so just give in, and eventually you will realize the meaninglessness of it is also meaningless.

 

you need a priest. seriously.

 

 

ETA: does anyone else out there reading this have chills? This post actually has the satanic "voice"

Edited September 14, 2013 by Lilllabettt

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

you need a priest. seriously.

 

 

ETA: does anyone else out there reading this have chills? This post actually has the satanic "voice"

 

 

A phat mass song i listened to once leant towards something like this(this is my expanded version.) The lyrics say this "we have nothing to loose and everything to gain ". The way i interpret this is if this life is nothing and we go back to nothing, then believing in God and Heaven shouldn't matter, in that we have nothing to loose believing in Jesus, if this life is nothing and we return to nothing. The whole nothing play is easily responded to with this type of answer, "Why would it bother you that i believe in God,heaven and hell, it's all nothing right ? So it shouldn't matter to you anyway what i believe in." Put your own spin on it though because i'm sure my version isn't in it's fullness.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Apteka]

you need a priest. seriously.

 

 

ETA: does anyone else out there reading this have chills? This post actually has the satanic "voice"

 

If that gives you the chills you must come from a very sheltered environment. But either way you missed the context of a lengthy discussion where Era basically endorsed a formlessness in religion. My point was if he's rejected so much already, and accepts conformity to the world, why not just take the logical conclusion and succumb entirely by rejecting everything? It was a tongue-in-cheek response, and I think he got the point.

[Aloysius]

I hardly think anything Era said could be categorized as wholesale "formlessness", though I can't speak for him.  the Faith is unchanging, but the historical truth that you have to accept is that the human Church is not, not the Orthodox Church, not the Catholic Church.  that doesn't mean formlessness for goodness sake.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I hardly think anything Era said could be categorized as wholesale "formlessness", though I can't speak for him.  the Faith is unchanging, but the historical truth that you have to accept is that the human Church is not, not the Orthodox Church, not the Catholic Church.  that doesn't mean formlessness for goodness sake.

 

 

JC "be baptised and believe and you will be saved." 3 fundamentals for this game brother or sister, these be 1. Love the Lord your God. 2 Love your neighbour as yourself. And 3. (the hardest) Let God love you. Found da Mental buzz sa. You got the triune reflection you will be saved, orthodox or not.

[Era Might]

If that gives you the chills you must come from a very sheltered environment. But either way you missed the context of a lengthy discussion where Era basically endorsed a formlessness in religion. My point was if he's rejected so much already, and accepts conformity to the world, why not just take the logical conclusion and succumb entirely by rejecting everything? It was a tongue-in-cheek response, and I think he got the point.

 

What have I rejected?

[Apotheoun]

I hardly think anything Era said could be categorized as wholesale "formlessness", though I can't speak for him.  the Faith is unchanging, but the historical truth that you have to accept is that the human Church is not, not the Orthodox Church, not the Catholic Church.  that doesn't mean formlessness for goodness sake.

Ah, so you subscribe to the Lutheran view of a visible Church and an invisible Church. In Orthodoxy the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church exists only in and through the many local Churches, and there is no human Church as opposed to a divine Church. In fact, such a notion betrays a Nestorian Christology. The Church is - like Christ - divine and human at the same time, and so its historical existence cannot be separated from its divine subsistence. And so your perspective does sound pretty formless to me. To be honest I would call it a Protestant understanding of the Church, and I say that as a former Protestant.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Apotheoun