Aloysius Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 (edited) Anyway, I think a priest can deny communion if there is a publically known grave offense for which giving the person communion would be seen to everyone as an allowance of such a grave offense. It is a matter of causing scandal to the faithful! That is why public grave offenses merit the official ministerial role of informing the politician that they may not receive the sacrament, because it affects us all in a more serious, visible, and profound way. Pax Amorque Christi Athanasius Contra Mundi! et Ambrose contra Theodosius! Edited June 5, 2004 by Aloysius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Jas priests are called to deny Baptism to parents who will not raise the child Catholic, or deny marriage to people who refuse to consider children. He can also deny Absolution to an unrepentant sinner. Anyone claiming to be Catholic and publically votes to kill children is both notorious and a sinner. Why shouldn't he deny Communion to noterious sinners causing grave scandal to the Body of Christ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted June 6, 2004 Share Posted June 6, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jun 5 2004, 01:39 PM'] Jas priests are called to deny Baptism to parents who will not raise the child Catholic, or deny marriage to people who refuse to consider children. He can also deny Absolution to an unrepentant sinner. Anyone claiming to be Catholic and publically votes to kill children is both notorious and a sinner. Why shouldn't he deny Communion to noterious sinners causing grave scandal to the Body of Christ? [/quote] I could not have said it better myself! God Bless you cmom!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted June 6, 2004 Share Posted June 6, 2004 The sky is falling, Pope and I are in perfect agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted June 6, 2004 Share Posted June 6, 2004 Wait, the Cardinal is an invertabrate? Is that allowed? I'd check Canon Law... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted June 6, 2004 Share Posted June 6, 2004 Well, I have sort of changed my stance. I change it from "who are we to deny communion" to "shouldnt we also deny communion to...". I agree with Cmom and popepius, if a person is a notorius sinner, they shouldnt get communion - not JUST abortion supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted June 6, 2004 Share Posted June 6, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jun 5 2004, 12:39 PM'] Jas priests are called to deny Baptism to parents who will not raise the child Catholic, or deny marriage to people who refuse to consider children. He can also deny Absolution to an unrepentant sinner. Anyone claiming to be Catholic and publically votes to kill children is both notorious and a sinner. Why shouldn't he deny Communion to noterious sinners causing grave scandal to the Body of Christ? [/quote] I did not intend to say that a priest shouldn't deny the Eucharist. I was pointing out that it is a grave act and that he has to be very sure. In the case of a parishioner or someone coming to talk to him, the priest would know first hand what the mindset is of the person because he has the opportunity to personally talk with them and perform his pastoral duties. In the case of a politician, the priest would have to know the actual voting record. He would have to do some work and probably meet with the politician. Could the politician be able to say he voted for a pro-abort bill because it was a small clause in a bill that increased funding for medical care of the indingent? Could the politician believe he is doing good by picking the lessor of two evils? We, nor a priest, should be to quick to pass judgement. That's why it's taken a bit of time for Bishops to speak out and my declarations. They may be trying to fullfull their pastoral responsibilities in a fair and reasonable manner. If nothing else, I've learned the Catholic Church always trys to be fair and reasonable and give the benefit of the doubt to the people as much as it can. God judges, we conjecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 6, 2004 Share Posted June 6, 2004 the bishop should probably meet with the politician, as every bishop i think has denied communion to politicians has either done or tried to do. it's PUBLICLY KNOWN grave matter for which a Bishop should deny communion, or if the priest knows the person personally knowing he is in a state of mortal sin. But when someone acts in a manner that is unCatholic and visible to all, then considers himself Catholic, the Catholic Church must take strong measures to ensure all know that one cannot be Catholic and act like that. increased funding for healthcare cannot justify a pro-BABYKILLING bill. it is never the lesser of two evils, NEVER. Abortion is a greater evil than no health care, it kills people before they even have a chance to live! If someone claims to be Catholic yet publicly votes for pro-abortion stuff, the Bishop should try to discuss this with him and get him to change his position. It cannot be justified-- EVER. If the politician does not change his position, the bishop should not allow him to still be considered a Catholic in good standing by denying the Eucharist. That is my stance, it's not judging the state of anyone's soul, it's saying that the bishop's responsibility is to protect the flock from wolves in sheeps clothing. St. Ambrose pray for us Pax Amorque Christi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader_4 Posted June 6, 2004 Share Posted June 6, 2004 Abortion is non-negotiable in any circumstanec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jun 6 2004, 12:46 AM'] Well, I have sort of changed my stance. I change it from "who are we to deny communion" to "shouldnt we also deny communion to...". I agree with Cmom and popepius, if a person is a notorius sinner, they shouldnt get communion - not JUST abortion supporters. [/quote] The notorius sin would have to be public though, at least according to Canon Law, in order to justify denial of Communion. If the priest knew of a secret sin, even a habitual mortal but secret sin, I am not sure that he could deny Communion. It would be exposing the secret sins of another. If the sin is public (and mortal), then I think he MUST deny the person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jun 5 2004, 11:24 PM'] The sky is falling, Pope and I are in perfect agreement [/quote] Every once in a while the stars line up just right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 [quote name='Crusader_4' date='Jun 6 2004, 11:24 AM'] Abortion is non-negotiable in any circumstance. [/quote] I am by NO means saying that abortion should be allowed... but what if your wife were in danger of losing her life? what would you choose? would you choose to save your wife, or the baby? just a question to consider. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 (edited) [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Jun 9 2004, 12:30 AM'] but what if your wife were in danger of losing her life? what would you choose? would you choose to save your wife, or the baby? [/quote] God's will. I'll always love him more than the woman I marry. Plus, it would be better for her soul if she doesn't have an abortion, and my job as her spouse is to get her to Heaven. Edited June 9, 2004 by qfnol31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 but how do you know would it be God's will to save the life of your child and not that of your life partner? your God given love? Your Proverbs 5:19, Proverbs 31, Song of Solomon 6:3 kinda girl? i would take my own life to save the both of them... it would be THAT difficult for me to know what to do...and I can't even say what I would do, right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Jun 9 2004, 12:43 AM'] but how do you know would it be God's will to save the life of your child and not that of your life partner? your God given love? Your Proverbs 5:19, Proverbs 31, Song of Solomon 6:3 kinda girl? i would take my own life to save the both of them... it would be THAT difficult for me to know what to do...and I can't even say what I would do, right now. [/quote] It's never right to cause harm in a situation like this to save a person. That's given us through Natural Law at least. In this way God's will becomes easier to identify (Natural Law is participation in Eternal Law). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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