Moral Theology Question

[PhuturePriest]

This question has been debated for quite some time, and I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. The question is: If you are in a state of mortal sin and die, but you're planning to go to confession, will you still go to hell? What if you're driving to confession and die in a car accident? I've asked theologians, and they've gone both ways about it. One told me that as long as you had a very strong desire to go to confession, you would be forgiven. But others have said differently.

Edited September 8, 2013 by FuturePriest387

[Nihil Obstat]

Only God and you via your conscience know if you were fully intending to go to confession and make a good confession. Even if you had been planning on going to confession, but were intending to omit a serious sin, then your confession would have been invalid. In such a situation, no, the intent would not be enough.

But IMO, if you had a concrete, proximate intention to confess, then you would be 'safe', so to speak, in a hypothetical car crash.

[PhuturePriest]

Only God and you via your conscience know if you were fully intending to go to confession and make a good confession. Even if you had been planning on going to confession, but were intending to omit a serious sin, then your confession would have been invalid. In such a situation, no, the intent would not be enough.

But IMO, if you had a concrete, proximate intention to confess, then you would be 'safe', so to speak, in a hypothetical car crash.

 

In this scenario, the person in question would have full intention to confess every mortal sin he could remember.

[Not The Philosopher]

My understanding is that, assuming perfect contrition and the intent to make a good confession ASAP, your sins are forgiven and the actual confession in this case is more a matter of legally bringing you back into good standing with the Church and deterring you from future sin.

 

But in the case of imperfect contrition, absolution would not occur until the priest pronounces it.

 

I could be wrong though.

[havok579257]

My understanding is that, assuming perfect contrition and the intent to make a good confession ASAP, your sins are forgiven and the actual confession in this case is more a matter of legally bringing you back into good standing with the Church and deterring you from future sin.

 

But in the case of imperfect contrition, absolution would not occur until the priest pronounces it.

 

I could be wrong though.

 

 

having perfect contrition is not an easy thing and I would say for some if not most impossible.  At least that's the way I understand it.

[PhuturePriest]

having perfect contrition is not an easy thing and I would say for some if not most impossible.  At least that's the way I understand it.

 

It's confusing on the definition of perfect contrition. My original understanding was that perfect contrition meant you were sorry that you offended God, and not because you would go to hell. But I also had another person tell me perfect contrition meant having sole sorrow simply because you offended God and having absolutely no fear of hell or your punishment because of the sin. This doesn't seem right, as to me that seems pretty impossible, especially considering many Saints wrote about having a fear of Satan and Hell.

[CatherineM]

We have baptism by desire. Maybe we should call this confession by desire. Of course then everyone would skip the confessional more than they already do.

[PhuturePriest]

We have baptism by desire. Maybe we should call this confession by desire. Of course then everyone would skip the confessional more than they already do.

 

But that's different. If I were to go "I want to go to confession, I just want to wait a while is all..." that's different than saying "If I saw a Priest walking near me I would beg him to hear my confession." If everyone skipped the confessional under the guise of saying "I want to go! Just not yet." they don't really want to go and they aren't really sorry.

Edited September 8, 2013 by FuturePriest387

[Jaime]

If you fill out a Catholic absolution waiver (CAW-1044 form downloadable at www.vatican.va)  prior to leaving for confession (this is only available if you have committed grave sins ) and have it in your possession at the moment of your death (providing that you are following the preapproved route to the designated church in your CAW-1044 form)  then and only then will you not be cast into the fiery pits of hell for all eternity. 

[PhuturePriest]

If you fill out a Catholic absolution waiver (CAW-1044 form downloadable at www.vatican.va)  prior to leaving for confession (this is only available if you have committed grave sins ) and have it in your possession at the moment of your death (providing that you are following the preapproved route to the designated church in your CAW-1044 form)  then and only then will you not be cast into the fiery pits of hell for all eternity. 

 

Fascinating story. But seeing as how you are an actual theologian, can you weigh in on this?

[PhuturePriest]

Second question: I heard that if you are in mortal sin but are martyred, God forgives you of your mortal sins. Is this true?

[Fr. Antony Maria OSB]

It's confusing on the definition of perfect contrition. My original understanding was that perfect contrition meant you were sorry that you offended God, and not because you would go to hell. But I also had another person tell me perfect contrition meant having sole sorrow simply because you offended God and having absolutely no fear of hell or your punishment because of the sin. This doesn't seem right, as to me that seems pretty impossible, especially considering many Saints wrote about having a fear of Satan and Hell.

Many saints have written about having a fear of Satan and Hell, but not all of them. St. Antony of the Desert didn't have any fear of Satan or demons because of his great trust in God. He also stated, " I once feared God, but now I love him," in many ways mirroring St. John the Divine's "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear; for fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not reached perfection in love." (1 John 4:18)

 

In my understanding, perfect contrition is sorrow for sin which comes from the deep love a person has for God; sorrow over having offended Him, and not at all a sorrow focused on the self, but focused on God.

 

But that's different. If I were to go "I want to go to confession, I just want to wait a while is all..." that's different than saying "If I saw a Priest walking near me I would beg him to hear my confession." If everyone skipped the confessional under the guise of saying "I want to go! Just not yet." they don't really want to go and they aren't really sorry.

I don't think that's what CatherineM was saying, though. I think she was saying if a person truly wanted to go to confession (as you stated in an earlier post with the example of a person driving to church to go to confession and dying in a car accident), then it would be a sort of 'confession by desire.' This wouldn't apply in the Augustinian 'I want to make a confession, but not yet,' scenario.

[Basilisa Marie]

What we do know is that only God knows the hearts of those facing death.  Anything we say about who does or doesn't make it into heaven (except saints, for whom we usually have supernatural evidence for their sainthood) is ultimately educated guesswork. I think in recent years, there's been a renewed understanding of the mercy of God, so more people are likely to err on the side of that mercy. On the other hand, other people prefer to emphasize God's justice, and would err on the side of punishment. One position isn't necessarily more right than the other, and both kinds of people help keep each other from the problematic tendencies of their ideas (mercy might tend toward a fluffy indifference God, justice might tend toward a robotic transaction God).

 

This is one reason why some of today's moral theologians find the designations of mortal and venial important, but sometimes unhelpful.  We use mortal and venial to try and put human intentions and activities and circumstances into nice neat little categories, when in reality life often defies such categorization.  It's the understanding that there's some kind of bold, solid line between mortal and venial sin that causes the kind of moral conundrums that you're talking about, FP. 

[PhuturePriest]

What we do know is that only God knows the hearts of those facing death.  Anything we say about who does or doesn't make it into heaven (except saints, for whom we usually have supernatural evidence for their sainthood) is ultimately educated guesswork. I think in recent years, there's been a renewed understanding of the mercy of God, so more people are likely to err on the side of that mercy. On the other hand, other people prefer to emphasize God's justice, and would err on the side of punishment. One position isn't necessarily more right than the other, and both kinds of people help keep each other from the problematic tendencies of their ideas (mercy might tend toward a fluffy indifference God, justice might tend toward a robotic transaction God).

 

This is one reason why some of today's moral theologians find the designations of mortal and venial important, but sometimes unhelpful.  We use mortal and venial to try and put human intentions and activities and circumstances into nice neat little categories, when in reality life often defies such categorization.  It's the understanding that there's some kind of bold, solid line between mortal and venial sin that causes the kind of moral conundrums that you're talking about, FP. 

 

Yeah, I definitely understand what you mean about moral conundrums. Can you weigh in on the true definition of perfect contrition?

[Selah]

I think you are over-pondering this and overthinking things too much. It is best to just rely on the mercy of God.