Being Killed During Mass

[Maggyie]

Okay, I'll be "that person" and say I totally wouldn't go.

 

Daily Mass is not an obligation. To be honest I don't make it to daily Mass normally, and I certainly wouldn't go on a particular day if I knew I was going to get blown away.

 

Even if it was Sunday Mass - you can't commit a mortal sin if you're forced to do something under duress. And "skipping Sunday Mass because if I go I will be shot" counts as duress, probably.

 

You know how Flannery O'Connor had a character say, "I think I could be a martyr, if they killed me quick"? Well it would be hard for me to be a martyr whether the killing was fast or slow. I like being alive. I have a husband who likes me alive. I have an employer, friends who count on my being alive etc.

 

Now if somebody held a gun to my head and said "deny Jesus or I'll shoot!" then I would say, RATS no getting out of this.

 

But otherwise? remember the 3 Wise Men went home another way to avoid Herod. I think the wise men were very.... wise.... in that regard.

[Basilisa Marie]

We should be careful with that though. Many martyrs went to evangelize Islamic areas, knowing full well that they would be killed. The reasonable assumption that you will be killed is not sufficient condition for counting it a suicide.

 

But that's different - Knowing that death is a very strong possibility and taking the risk anyway because you think the good you could do evangelizing is worth it is not the same. In this scenario, death is a certainty, not an assumption. AND in this scenario, you're going to mass - basically doing something for yourself, not giving up your own safety for someone else's welfare.  

 

Now, if you were a priest (or even a lay person leading a communion or prayer service because there were no priests) and someone had made a general death threat against priests (or Christians, even) who were going to preside over mass tomorrow, I think you could reasonably make the decision to go ahead with mass (or the communion service) as an act of service to the community.  

 

OH And I'd even say that having a gun to your head and someone asking you to deny Jesus also counts as duress.  Sure, we all hope that we can all make a free act of faith and choose to not deny Christ, but your culpability is at least partially mitigated by the gun.  That's partly why the early bishops allowed Christians who caved to persecution back into the Church, because no average Catholic is absolutely required to be a martyr. 

[EmilyAnn]

Would going to daily Mass be automatically an act of martyrdom in this case? Cause if the shooter is just a madman, they may not be shooting you because you're a Catholic, it might just be because that's the first place they stumbles upon or because your parish totally looks like it's harbouring aliens. 

[Lil Red]

i'd just go to a different church, one that has a lesser percentage of death hanging out. 

 

 

or, just continue doing what i'm doing and not go to daily Mass. 

[Lil Red]

quote from "The Bad Catholic's Guide to the Seven Deadly Sins" by John Zmirak that I think is appropriate:

 

Now God can bring good out of evil, but that doesn't mean we should go out and canonize Judas, no matter what National Geographic says. Our Lord in Gethsemane wasn't pumped up about the prospect of His suffering. He hadn't pestered a spiritual director into letting Him volunteer to die on a cross. He sweated blood in dread of what was coming and begged the Father to spare Him. We should follow His example. The Church encouraged martyrs to be steadfast; she steadfastly discouraged people from seeking martyrdom.

[cmaD2006]

I said "yes I would still go," but here's the key. I must have already decided to go before this info came out. If I made the decision to go, then it's almost a given that I will go. Because I honestly wouldn't believe that a gunman would be there.

[CatholicsAreKewl]

We should be careful with that though. Many martyrs went to evangelize Islamic areas, knowing full well that they would be killed. The reasonable assumption that you will be killed is not sufficient condition for counting it a suicide.

 

Would choosing to go to mass and die in this specific scenario necessarily make one a martyr, though? Do the intentions of the killer matter? Like, what if he wasn't particularly anti-Catholic and he just randomly thought the church would be a fun place to go shooting?

Edited September 9, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[Gabriela]

I have to agree with what's been said about the difference between going to daily Mass and going to Islamic countries. We go to Islamic countries to evangelize because the good that could come out of that is greater than the bad that could come out of our being killed. We also go specifically to spread the faith. My going to daily Mass when a madman is there isn't likely to convert the madman, or anyone else. So... what good would come?

[Gabriela]

And, TJMH: Just out of curiosity, why did you ask this?

[ToJesusMyHeart]

Well it was sparked by me seeing some suspicious-looking individuals outside my parish one day. And since it's in my nature to fantasize too much, I began considering all the awful things that were possible if my hasty judgement of these folks was correct, so I debated skipping Mass that day in order to prevent the (basically unfounded) fear of something happening during Mass. But I'm in a group where we made a promise with the others in the group that we will attend daily Mass. 

 

So I ended up going anyway, because of not only my group promise, but also because I recognized my imagination running too wild and noted the reality of the situation, and that those people probably weren't as suspicious as my initial glance at them led me to believe. 

 

So then I just wanted to see what others would do in a similar but more hostile situation. And the poll was born.

Edited September 9, 2013 by ToJesusMyHeart