Examples Of St.ignatius' Rules Of Discernment

[AccountDeleted]

He has a second book that specifically focuses on consolation ... i.e. the need to discern if you're going from consolation to consolation (vs desolation to consolation -- St. Ignatius pretty much says that if you entered consolation from a desolation it can be assumed to be of God.  But shoot -- I don't think I've hit those rules yet; I tend to go into desolation a lot :/ so when I go into consolation I'm having a blast for the short time it lasts :).

 
I don't seem to go through either consolation or desolation the way I used to. It's a different experience now. I think it's much deeper and based on trust instead. There is definitely pain over some things, but the pain feels like something cleansing instead of something debilitating and I feel very grateful for everything. It's a nice place to be - less emotional.
 

 

Hahahaha ... you really made me laugh.  I *still* can go out and buy three of the same blouse in different colors.  Yet, I usually stick to ONE.  Ha.
 
One way to decide about candy bars is:
a) if it is Lent or Advent, forget it
b) if it is Friday, forget it
c) If it is Sunday -- you can eat one of each
d) If it is Monday-Thurs or Saturday ... put your choices in a bag, and pull one out.  The ones that are left you can eat the next day (except on Friday).
 
:P

Well, I don't eat candy very much these days - don't seem to want it, which is good because being unemployed, I can't really afford it anyway!  Decisions get a lot easier when there isn't much choice. In fact, I don't know if you ever saw the Monkees movie made back the 70s - in one scene, this guru/lama guy is giving them a spiritual talk and he says... 'Where there is clarity, there is no choice. Where there is choice, there is misery.'  We all like having choices, but without clarity, choices can be a real pain in the behind! :)

[cmaD2006]

 
I don't seem to go through either consolation or desolation the way I used to. It's a different experience now. I think it's much deeper and based on trust instead. There is definitely pain over some things, but the pain feels like something cleansing instead of something debilitating and I feel very grateful for everything. It's a nice place to be - less emotional.
 

 

I hear ya ... in my case I should really specify.  I have a constant problem praying.  It's been years of battling with prayer.  What I should say is that I tend to go from non-desolation (neither desolation or consolation) to usually desolation to consolation.

 

And then of course -- if I go on retreat I have no problems.  It is a grace really ... I just dive right in.  There are small moments of desolation (where it does look like the enemy is entering in, or that I am tempted to give up, or I am tempted to lessen the prayer time, or I get a train of thought akin to "this is a waste" etc.) while on retreat but they are brief.

 

When I describe desolation it isn't just "emotional".  Besides St. Ignatius does teach that even when you are crying through something painful, THAT is not necesarily desolation -- it can be consolation (ex: when you are mourning a loss, or crying due to your sin).  Desolation is really a negative process that takes you away from God.

 

Ex:  You get up in the morning, but you didn't sleep well.  You try to pray ... your mind is everywhere.  You start looking at the clock -- you wonder if it's worth praying.  You're thinking "ok ... let me shorten my prayer time by 15 minutes since I'm so tired."  You shorten your time.

 

What just happened is a "desolation."  And when you go to prayer the next time, you probably will find that it is much harder to pray because you "gave in" to the temptation to shorten the prayer time.  So -- the enemy has a foothold that he's going to try to take advantage of -- until you recognize it and fight against it. 

 

Anyway this is my simplistic explanation.  I *still* am not great at catching and fighting desolations.  I usually end up spiralling down until something (the Lord) helps me snap out of it.  Or -- I go on retreat :).

[AccountDeleted]

I hear ya ... in my case I should really specify.  I have a constant problem praying.  It's been years of battling with prayer.  What I should say is that I tend to go from non-desolation (neither desolation or consolation) to usually desolation to consolation.

 

And then of course -- if I go on retreat I have no problems.  It is a grace really ... I just dive right in.  There are small moments of desolation (where it does look like the enemy is entering in, or that I am tempted to give up, or I am tempted to lessen the prayer time, or I get a train of thought akin to "this is a waste" etc.) while on retreat but they are brief.

 

When I describe desolation it isn't just "emotional".  Besides St. Ignatius does teach that even when you are crying through something painful, THAT is not necesarily desolation -- it can be consolation (ex: when you are mourning a loss, or crying due to your sin).  Desolation is really a negative process that takes you away from God.

 

Ex:  You get up in the morning, but you didn't sleep well.  You try to pray ... your mind is everywhere.  You start looking at the clock -- you wonder if it's worth praying.  You're thinking "ok ... let me shorten my prayer time by 15 minutes since I'm so tired."  You shorten your time.

 

What just happened is a "desolation."  And when you go to prayer the next time, you probably will find that it is much harder to pray because you "gave in" to the temptation to shorten the prayer time.  So -- the enemy has a foothold that he's going to try to take advantage of -- until you recognize it and fight against it. 

 

Anyway this is my simplistic explanation.  I *still* am not great at catching and fighting desolations.  I usually end up spiralling down until something (the Lord) helps me snap out of it.  Or -- I go on retreat :).

 

 

Yeah, I probably shouldn't have used the word 'emotional'. It's a trigger word like 'feelings'. We all have our own way of describing things so it can get difficult sometimes.

 

For me desolation has always been a very intense experience, not just an inability to pray. I guess I would describe being unable to pray as more 'aridity' or 'dryness'. And that happens too, of course, but desolation for me was really being 'desolated' - feeling darkness and confusion about my spiritual life and relationship with God. And that's the thing that hasn't happened in awhile, even recently when things were really tough for me emotionally. The trust has been like a lifeboat.

 

I've been very fortunate in prayer - even when it's dry, I love it. Some people can sing or dance or do complex mathematics - I can't do any of those things - but I have always been able to pray - that's kind of my gift from God. I would rather pray than do almost anything. A great blessing I know.

 

But then, nothing stays static in God's world ... :) Be prepared for the unexpected! :)

[Gabriela]

And as for making decisions-- well, that has been hard for me my whole life - I used to stand in front of the candy counter and debate which one to buy (if I couldn't afford both). When I became an adult, I used to buy three of the same blouse in different colors because I couldn't decide which color I liked best! :lol:

 

This is hilarious, because when I find a garment I like, I buy as many of it as I can afford. I have six of the same wrap, in only three colors. I only buy the different colors so people won't think I'm wearing the same thing every day. If it were up to me, I'd have six black wraps, all exactly the same. I do this because I hate shopping, it's nearly impossible for me to find things I like, and I really do not want to have to make a choice about what to wear when I get up every morning.

 

There's a book about how too much choice can paralyze us. It's called "The Paradox of Choice" by Barry Schwartz. He also has a couple TED talks. Here's the one that sums up the findings from the book:

 

http://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_choice.html

Edited September 20, 2013 by curiousing

[AccountDeleted]

This is hilarious, because when I find a garment I like, I buy as many of it as I can afford. I have six of the same wrap, in only three colors. I only buy the different colors so people won't think I'm wearing the same thing every day. If it were up to me, I'd have six black wraps, all exactly the same. I do this because I hate shopping, it's nearly impossible for me to find things I like, and I really do not want to have to make a choice about what to wear when I get up every morning.

 

There's a book about how too much choice can paralyze us. It's called "The Paradox of Choice" by Barry Schwartz. He also has a couple TED talks. Here's the one that sums up the findings from the book:

 

http://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_choice.html

 

 

My problem is that when I have to make a decision, I get all involved in the logic of it and spend way too much time thinking of pros and cons (even to the point of making lists, which isn't bad but can drive me nuts). In the end I find that I do much better by relying on 'feelings' - which can be a dirty word to some people. It seems to be received better when I talk about 'gut feelings' or 'instinct' etc. It isn't that I can't use my intellect to make a decision, just that it seems to spend forever trying to resolve the matter because I worry about making the 'right' decision - as if such a thing even exists. Following God's will for me relies a lot more on praying and letting the matter become clear on a much deeper level than intellect.

 

I think that's why I love the statement that 'Where there is clarity, there is no choice.' because to me it means that I need to pray until I have clarity, even if I can't see the final outcome of a decision, and then the choice seems to be the only one that makes sense to me.

 

I can't say how this is working out though because my choices seem to lead to some pretty awful experiences. I don't know if this means that my decision making process is flawed or if it is just God's plans for me include a lot of heartache and suffering. There is one gift that comes out of all this though, and that is trust. So whether I am making mistakes and God is using them for my good, or whether I am doing exactly as God planned for me all along, I will have to leave up to Him - and ask Him about it if I ever get to heaven. :)

[TheresaThoma]

One of the biggest things that I have personally applied to my life is "Don't make decisions during desolation". I have kind of expanded this for myself and have included times when I am on a major emotional and/or spiritual "high".  So basically I wait until I am on an even keel before making big decisions. There have been many times when I am at either extreme and feel like making a decision right then. However I know it is better to wait and then make the decision.