Examples Of St.ignatius' Rules Of Discernment

[God's Beloved]

It may be helpful to start a discussion on the Rules of Discernment according to the Teachings of St.Ignatius of Loyola

 

In the following link    http://www.discerninghearts.com/?page_id=1146

 

we find  podcasts by Fr.Timothy Gallagher.

 

Can we take one rule at a time and discuss real life experiences of how these rules work in our day to day lives as well as major decisions in life ?

 

Hope there are some experts on this matter present on the Phorum.

 

Thank you !

[cmaD2006]

Moving to transmundane (this is a spirituality discussion not a vocation discussion)

[God's Beloved]

Clarification for participants on this thread :

 

In the Opening Post I said ,"Can we take one rule at a time and discuss real life experiences of how these rules work in our day to day lives as well as major decisions in life ? "

 

The purpose of St.Ignatius' Spiritual exercices as far as I know [I'm not an expert on this !] , is to  have a VOCATIONAL DISCERNMENT  and arrive at a decision.

 

I desire to have a discussion among  those who have used  St.Ignatius' rules of discernment in their own vocational choice   and  have  helped  those feeling called to the   ordained or consecrated life  to arrive at a decision.

 

 

 

 

[Gabriela]

St. Ignatius' rules can be used for anything. They're commonly talked about in vocational discernment circles, but they're not just for discernment of a vocation. They're for discernment of anything.

 

Still, I don't see the harm in leaving this in the VS. I think it'd get a lot more attention there. Almost no one comes into the Lane, but St. Ignatius comes up rather often in the VS. cmariadiaz, would you consider moving this back?

 

Fr. Gallagher himself gives LOADS of examples of each rule in his books. I've read some of these and also watched most of his tv series (online). I haven't yet done the Ignatian exercises, but I regularly use St. Ignatius' rules to discern the origin or nature (whatever you want to call it) of things I think and feel. It's kinda' hard not to once you've been exposed to them. Still, it's more of an organic, ongoing, fluid thing I do, not a formal application. As I said, once you've learned the rules, it's difficult not to apply what you've learned automatically, naturally.

[Gabriela]

BTW: The Rules for the Discernment of Spirits are distinct from the Spiritual Exercises. Obviously they both manifest the spirituality of St. Ignatius, but technically, they're not the same.

[God's Beloved]

St. Ignatius' rules can be used for anything. They're commonly talked about in vocational discernment circles, but they're not just for discernment of a vocation. They're for discernment of anything.

 

Still, I don't see the harm in leaving this in the VS. I think it'd get a lot more attention there. Almost no one comes into the Lane, but St. Ignatius comes up rather often in the VS. cmariadiaz, would you consider moving this back?

 

Fr. Gallagher himself gives LOADS of examples of each rule in his books. I've read some of these and also watched most of his tv series (online). I haven't yet done the Ignatian exercises, but I regularly use St. Ignatius' rules to discern the origin or nature (whatever you want to call it) of things I think and feel. It's kinda' hard not to once you've been exposed to them. Still, it's more of an organic, ongoing, fluid thing I do, not a formal application. As I said, once you've learned the rules, it's difficult not to apply what you've learned automatically, naturally.

 

 

Unfortunately I don't have access to Fr.Gallagher's books. Have listened to the podcasts and found them very enlightening.

 

Some questions  regarding the Sp.Ex and the Rules of discernment  in the application to day to day choices 'related  to'  a Vocation  in which one is already seasoned , but trying to adapt to the signs of the times -  have been troubling me.

 

I tried to contact several Jesuits to get clarifications but  nowadays  even they hardly apply these  in the strict sense. Most Jesuits have an eclectic approach of combining Ignatian spirituality with  their own , usually psychology or sociology.

 

 

I searched the cupboard to find an old copy of the Spir. Exercices  and have started reading it. All this is good but too much theory.

Wish those who have actaully been thru the exercices to arrive at vocational choice  or  later in life been thru them to fine-tune the living of the same vocational choice   , or have helped others  , would be useful.

 

Anyway I pray the Holy Spirit will answer my questions.

[God's Beloved]

THE ELECTION

After much reflection on the Life and Mission of Jesus and after an Introduction to the third week we are ready now to make our Election. The matter of the Election can be whatever we think is important and which we have been discerning about for some time. This matter could be the change of a job, or residence or could even be changing my state of life i.e. marrying, remaining single or even joining the priesthood or religious life. Some like Mary, Paul, Matthew and the first disciples were able to make their election fairly easily when they were called by God/Jesus. Others like the rich man or the scribes and Pharisees found it extremely difficult.

 

 

MANNER OF MAKING THE ELECTION

 

When making the Election it is necessary to keep in mind the Two Standards. One is that of Satan who calls to selfishness and self centeredness and the other is that of Christ the King who calls to selflessness and other centeredness. This must be one background against which our Election must be made. The Other background must be the whole mission of Jesus that we have gone through. We must be able to see how Jesus wanted only one thing and that was to do the will of his Father. Thus whether he was healing people and making them whole or teaching people about the kingdom of God through parables and sayings, he was one pointed in his task which was to make God’s love visible and tangible for everyone who encountered him.

1. The first step in the Election process is Prayer. This prayer is for openness and receptivity (Mary was an excellent example of this). The openness is for the grace not to be influenced by my own desires but by what God wants for me.
2. After I have prayed long and hard and think that I can be open, I take a sheet of paper and divide it into two. On one side of that sheet I write down all my reasons FOR choosing what I am discerning about. When I am doing this I forget about all the reasons “against”. (This is why it is important to pray long and hard for openness)
3. The third step is to write on the other side of the same sheet of paper all the reasons AGAINST making that choice or choosing that way. When I am doing this I forget all the reasons “for”.
4. The next step will be to go through silently and meditatively the reasons “FOR” to see whether I have missed out any reason. If I have, then I put that reason down.
5. Next I go through silently and meditatively the reasons “AGAINST” to see whether I have missed out any reason. If I have, then I put that reason down.
6. I then pray for wisdom to make the right choice.
7. I look at the reasons for and against and make my decision.

Note: It is not the QUANTITY of reasons that must influence your decision but the QUALITY. If after I have made my decision, I find that the feelings in my heart are of peace, tranquillity and joy, then it is very likely that I have made the right choice. If on the other hand I feel uncomfortable about the choice I have made and there is dissatisfaction, then I may need to check again and then decide.

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I find the meditation on the two Standards very useful . For  CV living alone especially, there can always be the temptation to become self-centered  , selfish  .  This is a real danger  when the vocational choice is based on  Feelings of romanticism , being on Cloud nine etc. When  Real life brings challenges ,  such persons may tend to withdraw further into their own shell.

 

This is VERY IMPORTANT   I think for those who feel interested in CV to know , to refine their motivations . Guidance from experienced  persons who have 'knowledge' of the nitty-gritty of living this vocation in today's world  , can be severely lacking . I think going thru the Spir.Ex of St.Ignatius  will greatly help candidates to CV.

 

 

 

[cmaD2006]

God's beloved - what you are referencing (I.e. the meditation on the two standards, then an election) is something that is meant to be done in the context of the full exercises, after having been through week one and two.

There are a set of rules for discerment of spirits and a set of rules/guidelines for making a major decision. I think part of the reference you make does come from the guidelines on making an election. But whatever you are referencing mentions only one of the thee ways of making an election.

A major election is made when there is something to decide. In the note you mentioned you said that the meditation of the two standards was important for CVs. It is ... but again that meditation should be done in the context of the exercises. And in the context of the exercises, a person only works on making an election if there is an election to make. For example, if a CV needs to decide whether or not to take a new job that will move her to another state and Bishop then it makes sense to do so.
Otherwise what usually follows is a reform of life ... taking a look on what needs to change in order to follow Christ more closely.

What are you quoting from? From the video series? I suggest picking up his books since they really will help

Finally ... this applies to all states of life not just CVs. If you have a specific topic for discussion pertaining to CVs go ahead and open a new thread in VS. Just remember that if it is something to be debated that it should go into debate table and not VS

[cmaD2006]

God's beloved: I forgot to mention. The purpose of the exercises is NOT vocational discernment. It is meant for everyone, lay and religious and priests. In fact, one of the adaptations allowed is for a person to do the exercises within the context of everyday life.

Also a heads up that the text of the exercises should not simply be read ... the text is meant as a guide for those who direct the exercises.

You can easily pick up a copy of Fr. Gallagher's books on amazon, and his videos are on sale on one of the OMV sites. It is worth the investment.

[God's Beloved]

Thanks CMariaDiaz  for  the information !  I think I can now pick up some valuable keys to understanding  when the Spiritual Exercices can be useful.

 

What I wrote about the Two Standards and about the Election  -was given to me by a Jesuit .  As I wrote earlier , most Jesuits do not follow the Sp.Ex strictly. They adapt them a lot for people living in the world .

 

I really like the teachings of St.Ignatius.  Fr.Gallagher's talks also mention some examples of the 3 moments of  making an election.

The more persons share  their own experiences , the better i can understand  them.

[Gabriela]

cmariadiaz has already said what I felt compelled to say, but I'll reiterate it because it's important: The Exercises are meant as meditations to be done over a period of one month or, if that's not possible, over a period of several months. They're not to be read straight through. The whole point of the Exercises (as I understand them—someone correct me if I'm wrong) is to help a person grow closer to Jesus, to really open their eyes to His sacrifice and His role in their life. They are therefore very valuable to anyone, even to someone who is a confirmed veteran in their vocation (whatever that vocation may be).

 

The Rules for Discernment are more flexibly applicable to any decision making process, be it vocational or "mundane". These can be read straight through, and probably ought to be, over and over again, to really learn them and get them into one's head. Since one uses these "in the field" (of life) as rules to discern when a feeling/thought/urge/whatever is from God/oneself/the stoopid tempter, they need to be "in your head"—i.e., you need to know them, not just have read them. Of course you can always refer back to them if necessary, but the point is to be able to apply them "in the moment", since the feelings/thoughts/urges/etc. one applies them to need to be examined (i.e., discerned) in the moment.

 

That being said, I hope it's clear that the Rules are something one can read again and again without technically meditating on them. They are a tool for application, and their goal is to aid the individual in discerning God's will and "movements" in his/her soul. The Exercises are a much more serious undertaking and require a long-term commitment. They're not a "tool" so much as an experience in and of themselves. They shouldn't be read like a novel but lived for a significant period of time. Their goal is to bring one closer to Jesus generally, not to aid one in discerning the answer to a specific question/conundrum. (Although doing the exercises can certainly aid in vocational discernment, because one's relationship to Jesus becomes a good deal clearer in the process.)

[AccountDeleted]

I never actually found St Ignatius' Rules of Discernment much help for me in my vocational discernment but they have been useful in my everyday life for discernment of spirits, especially during times of desolation. The one that has always been most helpful is to continue doing what you had started or planned to do before the desolation started. This has kept me going during times when I simply wanted to crawl into bed and pull the covers up over my head! :)

[cmaD2006]

Well before there's any confusion, there are the rules of discernment of spirits (week 1 rules, dealing with desolation), then the additional rules of discernment of spirits (week 2, dealing primarily with consoldation).  There are a set of rules of discernment that deal with three ways of making a decision.

 

All three sets of rules are discussed in different books by Fr. Tim Gallagher.

 

Finally -- I've used primarily week 1 rules, and the three ways of making a decision.  I did find them helpful, but then again "my personal spirituality" (i.e. what spirituality I am drawn to, depend on, etc. for my life) is a cross of Franciscan and Ignatian.  It may not work for everyone (and since there are so many different spiritualities, what works for one person will not work for another).

[AccountDeleted]

Well before there's any confusion, there are the rules of discernment of spirits (week 1 rules, dealing with desolation), then the additional rules of discernment of spirits (week 2, dealing primarily with consoldation).  There are a set of rules of discernment that deal with three ways of making a decision.

 

All three sets of rules are discussed in different books by Fr. Tim Gallagher.

 

Finally -- I've used primarily week 1 rules, and the three ways of making a decision.  I did find them helpful, but then again "my personal spirituality" (i.e. what spirituality I am drawn to, depend on, etc. for my life) is a cross of Franciscan and Ignatian.  It may not work for everyone (and since there are so many different spiritualities, what works for one person will not work for another).

 

 

Yeah, there are so many different ways to approach spirituality - it's wonderful. I read the Gallagher book about 6 years ago but I remember the bit about desolation and continuing on. that helped me at the time. I guess remembering about consolation hasn't been stuck in my memory since during those times, everything seems so wonderful, the it doesn't seem necessary to even look about for help!:)

 

And as for making decisions-- well, that has been hard for me my whole life - I used to stand in front of the candy counter and debate which one to buy (if I couldn't afford both). When I became an adult, I used to buy three of the same blouse in different colors because I couldn't decide which color I liked best! :lol:

 

Now it all seems a little easier - if it's serious, I pray about it and discuss it with Jesus until it becomes clear to me what to do.

 

 

 

I still have problems deciding about candy bars though! :)

[cmaD2006]

Yeah, there are so many different ways to approach spirituality - it's wonderful. I read the Gallagher book about 6 years ago but I remember the bit about desolation and continuing on. that helped me at the time. I guess remembering about consolation hasn't been stuck in my memory since during those times, everything seems so wonderful, the it doesn't seem necessary to even look about for help! :)

 

 

He has a second book that specifically focuses on consolation ... i.e. the need to discern if you're going from consolation to consolation (vs desolation to consolation -- St. Ignatius pretty much says that if you entered consolation from a desolation it can be assumed to be of God.  But shoot -- I don't think I've hit those rules yet; I tend to go into desolation a lot :/ so when I go into consolation I'm having a blast for the short time it lasts :).

 

 

And as for making decisions-- well, that has been hard for me my whole life - I used to stand in front of the candy counter and debate which one to buy (if I couldn't afford both). When I became an adult, I used to buy three of the same blouse in different colors because I couldn't decide which color I liked best! :lol:

 

Now it all seems a little easier - if it's serious, I pray about it and discuss it with Jesus until it becomes clear to me what to do.

 

I still have problems deciding about candy bars though! :)

 

 

Hahahaha ... you really made me laugh.  I *still* can go out and buy three of the same blouse in different colors.  Yet, I usually stick to ONE.  Ha.

 

One way to decide about candy bars is:

a) if it is Lent or Advent, forget it

b) if it is Friday, forget it

c) If it is Sunday -- you can eat one of each

d) If it is Monday-Thurs or Saturday ... put your choices in a bag, and pull one out.  The ones that are left you can eat the next day (except on Friday).

 

:P