How Do You Cope With Religious Values In A Secular World?

[Gabriela]

I'm curious how other people deal with this: We are all, presumably, at least here in VS, trying to be meeker, humbler, quieter, more Christ-centered and Christ-like, etc. In short: We're all trying to develop now those virtues and personality traits and behaviors that we hope to perfect as sisters.

 

But in a world in which ambition and competition and sometimes downright meanness seem necessary to survive, how do you prepare yourself for a life that is not really in this world?

 

Do you all know the problem I'm talking about? Maybe I'm not expressing it very well...

[God's Beloved]

As soon as I read this, the beatitudes came to mind.

 

 

 

The Sermon on the Mount. 1^* When he saw the crowds,^* he went up the mountain, and after he had sat down, his disciples came to him. 2He began to teach them, saying:

The Beatitudes^*

3“Blessed are the poor in spirit,^*

for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.^a

4^* Blessed are they who mourn,^b

for they will be comforted.

5^* Blessed are the meek,^c

for they will inherit the land.

6Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,^*

for they will be satisfied.

7Blessed are the merciful,

for they will be shown mercy.^d

8^* Blessed are the clean of heart,^e

for they will see God.

9Blessed are the peacemakers,

for they will be called children of God.

10Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,^*

for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.^f

11Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you [falsely] because of me.^g 12^* Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven.^h Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

[BarbTherese]

Nos. 10 and 11 above.

[maximillion]

I am speaking from the advantage of having lived a monastic life for fourteen years, so those values, traits etc were inculcated in me from that time, but I do know what you mean, and I still struggle with it.

My foster son still asks why I am barefoot indoors in winter.........!

 

There has to be an ongoing willingness to go against the flow, to be, in effect, counter culture. Most of the people who I see weekly at Mass have no idea I live my life in accordance with monastic principals, it is only on those occasions when I brush up against the world (I keep pretty separate I have to admit) that it becomes more obvious.

 

I literally turn my head when people speak ill of others, and fall silent. I am often still and deliberately on the side lines, I buy locally in small shops and won't shop anywhere that has a big global network because I can't trust their policies on human and worker rights, and though I am prepared to be assertive if needful, I try to do this in a calm and thoughtful manner. I bank with a company that has overt fairtrade and ethic standards, and I will be vocal - I hope without being strident, on ethical issues if the topic arises where I am.

Meekness and humility are only rewarded in heaven, it seems, and I did go from being someone who thought it important to get their opinion expressed to one who will express it if asked, but oh my goodness, the impatience with which many view this desire for quiet reflection before speech!

Even among my Catholic friends I think I am the only one who says 'I would have to pray and think about that before I respond'. But then, I never minded being viewed as a weirdo!

 

In simple truth in answer to your question? As a person who has a before and after the convent? You can't really prepare yourself, because the needs of the way this world operates are counter to the way God's Domaine operates. This is why we have Aspirancy, Postulancy and a long perparation for Vows, in order to make that 'conversion de moeurs' so beloved of Benedictines and so needed by us all!

[AccountDeleted]

I'm curious how other people deal with this: We are all, presumably, at least here in VS, trying to be meeker, humbler, quieter, more Christ-centered and Christ-like, etc. In short: We're all trying to develop now those virtues and personality traits and behaviors that we hope to perfect as sisters.

 

But in a world in which ambition and competition and sometimes downright meanness seem necessary to survive, how do you prepare yourself for a life that is not really in this world?

 

Do you all know the problem I'm talking about? Maybe I'm not expressing it very well...

 

 

The funny thing is that living in a convent is very much like living in the world, in terms of having to get along with people. Personally, I have sometimes found it even harder in the convent to be meek and humble and more Christ-like. Why? Well, interacting with people in the world can be hard, sure, but for most people, we go home at the end of the day and relax and put a little space between us and those who cause us problems.

 

In religious life, one is called upon to live with those who might be challenging in the extreme. Sure, everyone is 'supposed' to be meek and humble and all those good things, but believe it or not, sisters are people too, and they have bad tempers and ambitions and vanities and just plain meanness sometimes. There are saints in convents and then there are some just some sisters who make you wonder why they entered religious life in the first place! And some of these women are the ones who have authority and power over you.

 

I would say, just be yourself, but be the best 'yourself' you can be. When you fail to be kind or patient or humble or whatever - examine yourself and take it to God in prayer. We don't need to be perfect. We just need to be focusing on the One who is perfect. We don't achieve perfection by what we do, but by what we allow God to do in us.

 

And whatever you do, don't think you have to achieve some special level of virtue in order to enter a religious community. Practice virtue for love of God, but don't think that it is only those of incredible virtue who enter convents. Not so - human beings enter convents, and then God makes them into saints ...  or not    :) .

[Gabriela]

These have all been helpful, so thank you to everyone. (I should really just tattoo the Beatitudes on the backs of my hands.) Let me be more specific:

 

I am in an academic environment that is very competitive. Everyone is sizing everyone up the first year. For six hours a week, I sit around with 15 to 30 other individuals talking about what communication is. There are three problems with that:

 

(1) My grade depends upon my participation. Both quantity and quality.

(2) As it turns out, 95% of the people around me are social constructionists (people who believe that there is no external reality, that all "knowledge" is subjective and socially determined, that the individual has no agency, etc.).

(3) My default response to such a situation is to participate as expected, but given the nature of others' participation, I am constantly challenging their views. I am therefore getting "sized up" as a critical, hateful, "intolerant" person, which is really, really bad in a competitive program in the very first year.

 

I'm not good at "speaking diplomatically", and I'm working on that, but I've been working on it for years, and I haven't made much progress at all. I don't know (not "I don't want to", but I literally do not see a way, at least never in the moment I need to) to participate in these discussions without "correcting error", given the absurdity of the views expressed all around me during those six hours. The only alternative I see is to just shut up, but if I do that, my grade will suffer severely (like, so severely I may eventually be kicked out of the program). I tell myself it's bad witness to be perceived as critical, hateful, and intolerant, but I also tell myself it's bad witness to sit around quietly while people deny the existence of reality, the possibility of knowledge, and the intrinsic humanity of the individual.

 

I'm stuck here. I don't know what to do. Or rather, I know what to do: Phrase my criticism charitably and with love. But I don't know HOW to do it. And given that problem, I am wedged between "correcting error" the only way I know how, and just shutting up. Neither of which is a good option.

Edited September 4, 2013 by curiousing

[Feankie]

When you do speak, do you use the phrases.,"I thought I heard you say....   OR  "I understand we have  different world views and I respect where you're coming from, however.....

Try to preface your comments with something that acknowledges/affirms the other person's positions/comments, but once you've done that in a respectful way, then launch into your point/s.  If you can get the other person/people to feel good and own what they say/believe, it's half the battle.

[Gabriela]

When you do speak, do you use the phrases.,"I thought I heard you say....   OR  "I understand we have  different world views and I respect where you're coming from, however.....

Try to preface your comments with something that acknowledges/affirms the other person's positions/comments, but once you've done that in a respectful way, then launch into your point/s.  If you can get the other person/people to feel good and own what they say/believe, it's half the battle.

 

No, I don't do that, because it sounds "touchy feely" to me. And in one sense, it's dishonest. I don't respect a worldview that denies the existence of reality, knowledge, and morality. Know what I mean?

 

People have suggested this before, and I know it would definitely help, but I just can't get over the feeling that it's not honest.

[savvy]

Curiousing,

 

I know exactly how you feel.  I went to college in a very secular environment and worked in the media for sometime. I was active in the church on the weekend, but in the closet during the week about my faith. I did not want to come across as rude on controversial issues. 

 

I felt like I was constantly juggling two worlds. I am now a candidate in an active community, with a public presence, and I am no longer in the closet, but since we are representatives of the church in how we live and act at our school and college, we have to learn to be firm, yet gentle in situations where our values might be on the line.

 

I have learnt that it is impossible to find a world without sinners, not matter how carefully you tread.

 

One thing that helps me is that I pray for the people and situations that God brings into my life.

 

As our mother superior says, thank God for doing something for you before He does it.

 

In your case, it would be "Thank You Lord, for this Professor or these students, thank you for the civil exchange I am going to have with these people, and thank you for the grades I will receive in this program. Bless my relationships with my teachers and peers."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gabriela]

In your case, it would be "Thank You Lord, for this Professor or these students, thank you for the civil exchange I am going to have with these people, and thank you for the grades I will receive in this program. Bless my relationships with my teachers and peers."

 

This I can do. :-) Thank you. And thank you for commiserating with me. This is really, really hard, and I know other people have been in this situation, so I'm really grateful when people share that with me.

[Rosita]

No, I don't do that, because it sounds "touchy feely" to me. And in one sense, it's dishonest. I don't respect a worldview that denies the existence of reality, knowledge, and morality. Know what I mean?

 

People have suggested this before, and I know it would definitely help, but I just can't get over the feeling that it's not honest.

 

I work at a secular university, so I know what you mean about those worldviews. I think a good way to handle the situation is to ask a lot questions. This will help you get to know more about these individuals will help you get a feel of where they are coming from.  You'll not only learn more about them and get your participation points at the same time, but you will learn what approach will be most effective and which way is the best way to present truth.

 

Remember they are aching for God and true love. When they see you as a person who cares about what they have to say and about them as an individual, this might even pack more a punch.

[savvy]

 

 

This I can do. :-) Thank you. And thank you for commiserating with me. This is really, really hard, and I know other people have been in this situation, so I'm really grateful when people share that with me.

 

 

 

No Problem. I know this seems like a trial right now, but when you do enter religious life, you will be grateful for the experience, because you have been on the other side, and know what they think like, but they have not been in your shoes.

 

 

[TheresaThoma]

Step one: Pray. Invite God into the conversation and ask Him to help you.

Step Two: Clarify- ask questions to figure out why these people think like they do. (Do they seriously believe this or are they just "parroting" what they have heard?) Also this can win you some points by just restating what someone else has said (or try to connect two people's ideas even if you don't agree)

Step Three: State your position and be ready to back it up. Calmly state your position/opinion and have the facts to back it up. This means that you will have to do some studying to be able to back things up, do they only believe what can be proved, then bring on Aristotle.

Step Four: Validate others positions no matter how tiny. Search for that common ground!

Step Five: If things get heated move on. You may need to say " I don't think we are communicating that well about X topic and it seems like we aren't getting anywhere what did you think about Y?" If you back down and redirect onto a different topic it will help.

 

Above all DON'T take it personally!

[beatitude]

I work at a secular university, so I know what you mean about those worldviews. I think a good way to handle the situation is to ask a lot questions. This will help you get to know more about these individuals will help you get a feel of where they are coming from.  You'll not only learn more about them and get your participation points at the same time, but you will learn what approach will be most effective and which way is the best way to present truth.

 

Remember they are aching for God and true love. When they see you as a person who cares about what they have to say and about them as an individual, this might even pack more a punch.

 

This x 100. Listening to someone well and carefully is one of the most humble and kind-hearted things you can ever do. No one has access to full and perfect knowledge, and these students might very well have things to teach you that you don't know. Instead of focusing on how wrong they are and how infuriated that makes you, focus on how you can listen better. Ask more questions. Also remind yourself of how much you can't know. The Imitation of Christ would be a lovely text for you to read if you haven't already.

 

In an academic environment, debate is expected, but remember too that some students may be underconfident, poorly prepared, or unsure of their own views on any given topic, so they explore and they change their minds and they may appear inconsistent. During my undergraduate years, in one of my classes there was a student who intimidated me from speaking out because whenever I opened my mouth he would pounce to contradict what I said. This was eighteenth-century French literature, and I didn't feel half as well-read as he was or half as fluent in French, so rather than trying to think and express my ideas I was just quiet. You don't want to have this effect on someone. Think about how you can be more encouraging - that might be easier than phrasing it as, "How can I be more humble?" Also, if you think you've hurt someone by your way of speaking, apologise after class and just explain that you can be quite forceful in a debate - you don't mean it personally.

[MarysLittleFlower]

I'm curious how other people deal with this: We are all, presumably, at least here in VS, trying to be meeker, humbler, quieter, more Christ-centered and Christ-like, etc. In short: We're all trying to develop now those virtues and personality traits and behaviors that we hope to perfect as sisters.

 

But in a world in which ambition and competition and sometimes downright meanness seem necessary to survive, how do you prepare yourself for a life that is not really in this world?

 

Do you all know the problem I'm talking about? Maybe I'm not expressing it very well...

 

I do see what you mean.. honestly what tends to help me (and I do fail at this still) is prayer and going to church and reading about the Saints. When we spend time with Jesus, and reading about the Saints, the outside influences tend to be lesser... it's like they don't matter as much. However, I'm still trying to get there too and I fail a lot at this. But I just found that whenever I've spent time in church or read about the Saints, that tends to make it easier :) I think if we 'hang around' the world too much, then it's like our standards for ourselves might decrease because we might thing "i'm not so bad, I go to Sunday Mass, etc" - but if we read about the Saints, that sort of increases our standards and also helps us feel less alone :) Spending time with Our Lord and receiving the Sacraments frequently also gives people grace to be more like Him. Adoration is very helpful. I think it's something to be done together with God, not by ourselves or attempt to do it by our own strength, because we don't have this sort of strength :) we can only conquer the world in Christ, who has conquered the world... :)