Strike On Syria?

[Didacus]

Are you denying that the Ustasi were Catholics? They certainly considered themselves such. They were Catholic extremists. Just apologize for your chauvinistic claim and we can all move on.

 

Ok - lets look at it from this point of view: how many of them were saints?

Edited September 14, 2013 by Didacus

[Didacus]

all the accusations for what the "real Islam" is from non-Muslims who cite the Koran is rather disingenuous, I think.  We don't believe in the Koran, we don't believe in Islam, and therefore we don't believe that there is such a thing as a "real Islam" and a "fake Islam".  The fact is that most Muslims are moderates in that regard, and many of them are just as afraid of the terrorist Muslims as you are.  If there are things in the Koran that espouse violence, there are plenty of clerics who don't interpret it that way and do not promote that kind of violence at all... and for those of us who don't believe the Koran is divinely inspired, that should really be good enough for us.

 

there are indeed Catholic extremists, and we would say that they are not following Catholicism correctly just as Muslims say the extremists are not following Islam correctly.  Since we believe in Catholicism, we do believe there's a real Catholicism that's being perverted by the extremists for their own political aims, but again, it doesn't matter so much what's real Islam is, it can be whatever they want it to be for all we care, if they want to say Mohammad was a space alien, it's not really our business, as we think they should abandon Mohammad for Christ regardless... but before they do that, if they want to promote a peaceful interpretation of the Koran, so much the better.

 

that said, I consider the majority of the Syrian Rebels to be extremists that we should not support.  I'd feel much better about the Assad regime retaining control over areas with Christian or Alawite Villages than I would feel about any of the rebels, even the mainstream elements of the Free Syrian Army, having control of them.

 

The big difference between Christianity and Islam is that you can easily justify peace towards everyone from what Jesus said, and you can easily justify violence towards everyone from what Mohamed said.  The opposite is far more challenging.

[4588686]

Ok - lets look at it from this point of view: how many of them were saints?

 

 

I didn't know that Osama Bin Laden was a Muslim saint.  

[Didacus]

He is a hero to many many muslims, but all that is aside the point I originally made.  From what I read from your posts you are no more than a detractor.

So I think I'll refrain from trying to sustain a conversation with you from now on.

 

 

[4588686]

He is a hero to many many muslims, but all that is aside the point I originally made.  From what I read from your posts you are no more than a detractor.

So I think I'll refrain from trying to sustain a conversation with you from now on.

 

 

Yeah.  And the Ustashi were heroes to a lot of Catholics. As was Franco.  Or the IRA.   

 

Refrain all you want.  If I made as silly a claim as you did I'd probably try to find an excuse to back out of the conversation as well.  

[Aloysius]

Of course I agree that Our Lord, the Prince of Peace, is a better example than Mohammad, who was indeed a warlord.  There are many bad examples throughout Christian history, but we are more easily able to disavow them, but in Islam Mohammad cannot be disavowed.  Still, more peaceful expressions of Islam do exist... just as we don't follow the examples of military generals from Old Testament Times, even those who are the fathers and therefore saints who went from the Bosom of Abraham to Heaven upon Christ's harrowing of Hell.  you can consider those peaceful expressions nothing but some kind of liberal corruption of pure Islam and play into the extremist Islamist hands, or be perfectly happy to acknowledge that Islam is not a divinely revealed religion and be pleased with the developments within it over the centuries that eschew unjust violence.

[CatholicsAreKewl]

He is a hero to many many muslims, but all that is aside the point I originally made.  From what I read from your posts you are no more than a detractor.

So I think I'll refrain from trying to sustain a conversation with you from now on.

 

That doesn't mean that most Muslims see him as a role model. I could agree with you if you were more specific. Your argument makes more sense if you're talking about Wahhabi's or Salafi's specifically... and not all Salafi's agree with Osama. I think a better view would be that the Quranic verses can easily adapt a violent interpretation. Muftis have been known to assign peaceful interpretations and violent interpretations for political reasons. The Qur'an forbids acts of terror. Osama got around this by claiming that those in the twin towers (as well as all Americans) were responsible for America's foreign policy because The United States is a democracy. 

Edited September 14, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[Didacus]

Jesus - love your enemies, warns his followers 'he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword'

Mohamed - leads military campaigns, personally beheads his enemies, sanctions the murder of his political opponents.

 

The only 'peaceful interpretations' of islam are those that deny the example of their prophet.  The Christians who support violence deny the example of Jesus.

 

That is the fundamental difference between the two.  Interpret all you want, at the source, islam is not a religion of peace.

 

[4588686]

"AND FIGHT in God's cause against those who wage war against you, but do not commit aggression-for, verily, Allah does not love aggressors."

[4588686]

And David and his men went up, and invaded the Geshurites, and the Gezrites, and the Amalekites: for those nations were of old the inhabitants of the land, as thou goest to Shur, even unto the land of Egypt. And David smote the land, and left neither man nor woman alive, and took away the sheep, and the oxen, and the asses, and the camels, and the apparel, and returned, and came to Achish. 1 Samuel 27:8-9

[Didacus]

How many times was Mohamed provoked in his 60+ military campaigns?

[4588686]

How many times was Mohamed provoked in his 60+ military campaigns?

 

 

You're not paying attention to what either I or Aloysius are saying.  

[AugustineA]

I'm not quite sure Assad is stupid enough to make the mistake of using chemical weapons right at this point in the war. As far as I know, there were also Syrian loyalist soldiers stationed in the area soo.. hm.. There are a few options. It could be the rebels. It could have been a thermobaric weapon. It could have been a mistake somewhere on the ground. The scariest option is Assad did it on purpose to drag the US into a larger war by proxy. 

 

Then there are US interests, oil, regional influence, balkanization of the region in order to destabilize the underbellies of China and Russia.

 

I'm not sure, but it interests me as well. 

[Hna.Caridad]

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