Strike On Syria?

[Selah]

If I see one more facebook post of an evangelical getting giddy over this because of the "rapture" I will...do nothing because I have no power. I'll get very cross, though.

 

(lol, had to make that phatmass friendly :p ).

[CatholicsAreKewl]

If I see one more facebook post of an evangelical getting giddy over this because of the "rapture" I will...do nothing because I have no power. I'll get very cross, though.

 

(lol, had to make that phatmass friendly :P ).

 

You're just mad because Catholics aren't on the guest list.

[Selah]

You're just mad because Catholics aren't on the guest list.

 

But I'm not Catholic. Though, to be fair, I doubt Orthodox would be as well.

[CatholicsAreKewl]

don't forget Mr. Magoo... er.. I mean... John Kerry, who seems to have inexplicably stumbled into a peaceful delay lol

 

 lol, careful. Kerry will probably take undue credit for this in the future. It was actually very surprising that Russia reacted in this way and more surprising that Syria actually approved given its history.

[Era Might]

You're right, a lot of things would need to happen before it escalated into a world war but it is a possibility. I'll explain in more detail a couple of things that could go wrong...

Lets say we got attacked by Hezbollah and we responded by hitting Lebanon. Attacking both Hezbollah and Assad, who represent two Shi'ite groups, would prompt Iran to enter the conflict. Russia is a longtime ally and protector of Syria (since before the Cold War). We can expect Russia to act in some way if we strike as well. Israel, being so close to the action, might decide to join the fun if it doesnt end up being dragged into it. Iraq's government is shiite run and they're not so happy about us fighting an alawite. I doubt they'll enjoy the prospect of us fighting Iran as well. Imagine engaging with an army that we trained and equipped.

This example is pretty extreme but we should consider all possibilities before entering into a conflict. Obama bushed us by getting America trapped in this situation without knowing the possible outcomes. Russia is our saving grace right meow.

 

I look at it differently than a domino effect (we attack, some else attacks, etc). That's not the model of the World Wars. The World Wars were centered around contintental Europe and the old "Great Powers" world order from the 19th century. The unification of the German empire helped lead to WWI, and then Germany was smacked down at Versailles, nursed that grievance for 25 years, and Hitler plotted his rise to power. Hitler tried to win back German Lebensraum, and that threatened all of Europe.

 

I don't think a World War is possible as a domino effect. The only way I can see some kind of World War coming out of this Syria situation is if it somehow became about the Middle East, not about the U.S. IOW, if someone used this as an opportunity to once and for all wipe Israel off the map and conquer all Arab lands, or something like that. Is there someone in the Middle East who could attempt something like that? Doesn't seem like it. The world model of the World Wars was a leftover from imperialism. Today, nationalism is the world standard. Even if, say, Iran tried to start a World War, would Iraq side with Iran? Saudi Arabia? Egypt? Libya? They all have national interests, not imperial. And Iran is not even Arab.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Era Might

[Didacus]

Not to mention in the two (modern) world wars, each side had a genuine conviction of being able to win, and win quickly.  Not so when an 800lbs gorilla is in the ring.

[Era Might]

Article on Russia's geopolitical stake in the region.

 

 

 

For Putin, Syria is all too reminiscent of Chechnya. Both conflicts pitted the state against disparate and leaderless opposition forces, which over time came to include extremist Sunni Islamist groups. In Putin’s view -- one that he stresses repeatedly in meetings with his U.S. and European counterparts -- Syria is the latest battleground in a global, multi-decade struggle between secular states and Sunni Islamism, which first began in Afghanistan with the Taliban, then moved to Chechnya, and has torn a number of Arab countries apart. Ever since he took office (first as prime minister in 1999 and then as president in 2000) and was confronted by the Chechen war, Putin has expressed his fear of Sunni Islamist extremism and of the risks that “jihadist” groups pose to Russia, with its large, indigenous, Sunni Muslim population, concentrated in the North Caucasus, the Volga region, and in major cities such as Moscow. A desire to contain extremism is a major reason why Putin offered help to the United States in battling the Taliban in Afghanistan after 9/11. It is also why Russia maintains close relations with Shia Iran, which acts as a counterweight to Sunni powers.

 

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/139079/fiona-hill/the-real-reason-putin-supports-assad

Edited September 12, 2013 by Era Might

[add]

Chemical warfair kills over 400 children in Syria in one day.
~ USA to atack Alleged perpetrators with 100 million hours worth of Crouse missile

there are about 1.3 million abortions each year, which works out to 3,562 abortions each day, according to the New England Journal of Medicine in the USA
~ nobody cares!

[add]

Chemical warfair kills over 400 children in Syria in one day.
~ USA to atack Alleged perpetrators with 200 million dollars worth of Tomahawk missile

there are about 1.3 million abortions each year, which works out to 3,562 abortions each day, according to the New England Journal of Medicine in the USA
~ nobody cares!

Meanwhile the Syria rebels who the USA will assist with there barrage of weapons of mass destruction (tomahawks missiles) is raping, killing and decimating Syria's Christians population in a Deliberate attempt to purge the country of all Christians.

Pray for peace

[KnightofChrist]

Meanwhile the Syria rebels who the USA will assist with there barrage of weapons of mass destruction (tomahawks missiles) is raping, killing and decimating Syria's Christians population in a Deliberate attempt to purge the country of all Christians.

Pray for peace

I read the other day the CIA has already begun to arm them. We are now giving ad and comfort to al qaeda.

[4588686]

I read the other day the CIA has already begun to arm them. We are now giving ad and comfort to al qaeda.

The Syrian rebels are not a monolith.  

[4588686]

The interesting thing about Russia, as I see them, is they are sticklers for international rules. They may not be a haven of freedom, and they have their own interests separate from the U.S., but I don't see them as really hostile or "rogue." They play the international law card well because it's the best way to maintain their balance of power with the U.S.

 

Did you see the Assad interview with Charlie Rose? It was interesting, he seems like a Western-style politician. I don't know much about his regime, though, so maybe he's really a despot.

 

 

Russia respects international law when it's beneficial to them.  They flaunt them when they become burdensome (i.e. Chechnya).

[KnightofChrist]

The Syrian rebels are not a monolith.  

 

Yes there are other extremist groups other than just al qaeda, and sure I suppose there are some that are not. The problem is that many are extremist and we should not give them aid and comfort. That use to be called treason.

[CatholicsAreKewl]

Yes there are other extremist groups other than just al qaeda, and sure I suppose there are some that are not. The problem is that many are extremist and we should not give them aid and comfort. That use to be called treason.

We have a history of funding sketchy groups. I think the U.S. is trying its darndest to settle for something that'll make it look weak without making it look weak. The way it gets around this is by saying things like, "Yeah, we'll accept this peace agreement... ONLY IF ASSAD MAKES IT LOOK LIKE HE'S DOING EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT".  Now we're sending aid in the form of light weapons and nonlethal items. 

Edited September 13, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[add]

That's been going on covertly for some time, the leader of Syria has also stated yesterday that he will not give up his chemical weapons (Putin Plan) until the USA stops supplying the rebels

Go figure