Strike On Syria?

[Lilllabettt]

the ideologies of political science are impotent in the face of human suffering.

To the widow and the orphan it has nothing to say but "collectivism is delusional."

 

[Winchester]

the ideologies of political science are impotent in the face of human suffering.

To the widow and the orphan it has nothing to say but "collectivism is delusional."

Stop dodging your claim of "we" when it's really others acting.

[God the Father]

If America’s desire is to truly stop the pain and suffering,

 

I don't think this is the case. I don't think this has anything to do with pain and suffering, and as evidence I offer, in the first place, the incalculable amounts of pain and suffering occuring worldwide, in places other than Syria.

 

Like Iraq, and in a certain dimension Afghanistan, the desire to intervene in Syria is political in nature.

[Era Might]

the ideologies of political science are impotent in the face of human suffering.

To the widow and the orphan it has nothing to say but "collectivism is delusional."

 

I don't know how far I would go in moralizing this issue. I know John Kerry tried to pitch it as a "moral obscenity" (a silly phrase, for purely literary reasons), but I don't think this is really a humanitarian situation. I think the United States is going in for military and international reasons, not because of moral outrage.

[Lilllabettt]

I don't know how far I would go in moralizing this issue. I know John Kerry tried to pitch it as a "moral obscenity" (a silly phrase, for purely literary reasons), but I don't think this is really a humanitarian situation. I think the United States is going in for military and international reasons, not because of moral outrage.

 

thats the problem. This issue is being debated as a "national interest" thing- how does this impact us.

[Era Might]

thats the problem. This issue is being debated as a "national interest" thing- how does this impact us.

 

I think that is the realistic way things work. I used to be more hostile to nationalism, but I think there is a healthy aspect of nationalism as a way to delineate power and give peoples a specific area to direct their public affairs. It has negative aspects, but it also provides balance and limits against empire of the old sort.

 

Values are always a factor in American foreign policy, but I don't think in reality you can take part in the international system on a basis of "moral outrage." And I don't dismiss the importance of moral witness in society, such as the Pope writing "War, never again" on Twitter. I don't dismiss what he's saying, but I don't take it literally either.

[Winchester]

Nationalism is "I contribute by sitting on my ass saying 'We need to help' from well out of the battlezone" It's a cheaply bought claim of being a protector.

 

[Lilllabettt]

sigh.

[Era Might]

Nationalism is "I contribute by sitting on my ass saying 'We need to help' from well out of the battlezone" It's a cheaply bought claim of being a protector.

 

It means getting a say in the direction and leadership of your country. Every voice is equal at the ballot box, but not in society. Of course we have leaders who make decisions based on their expertise. Is it perfect? No, but to have a civilization you have to have a structure.

[Winchester]

It means getting a say in the direction and leadership of your country. Every voice is equal at the ballot box, but not in society. Of course we have leaders who make decisions based on their expertise. Is it perfect? No, but to have a civilization you have to have a structure.

Voting on someone to occupy an office over which you have zero direct control is not having a say. That's utter nonsense.

[Winchester]

sigh.

 

Join the military and get to killing if you want. Otherwise, your "we" talk is complete fiction.

[Era Might]

Voting on someone to occupy an office over which you have zero direct control is not having a say. That's utter nonsense.

 

When you're dealing with millions of people it's not nonsense. On a micro level, of course, one person in three hundred million doesn't do much. But the medium is the message, and the institution creates the system. We have a democratic institution where power is functionally organized by blocs of millions of votes. It doesn't work in a simplistic way...power is about knowing where the powerful move, and how to harness it. That's what politicians are best at, through parties, through media, etc. But the system we have is a functional democratic system where public affairs are a matter for everyone.

 

What do you want, everyone on an Internet forum to be a commander in chief? We've come a long way from the Persian, Roman, Greek empires.

[Winchester]

When you're dealing with millions of people it's not nonsense. On a micro level, of course, one person in three hundred million doesn't do much. But the medium is the message, and the institution creates the system. We have a democratic institution where power is functionally organized by blocs of millions of votes. It doesn't work in a simplistic way...power is about knowing where the powerful move, and how to harness it. That's what politicians are best at, through parties, through media, etc. But the system we have is a functional democratic system where public affairs are a matter for everyone.

 

What do you want, everyone on an Internet forum to be a commander in chief? We've come a long way from the Persian, Roman, Greek empires.

You have no direct control. You vote someone in and hope. They vote in their little temple and you either obey or suffer punishment. You can idealize and make excuses if you want.

[Era Might]

You have no direct control. You vote someone in and hope. They vote in their little temple and you either obey or suffer punishment. You can idealize and make excuses if you want.

 

Control over what?

[Winchester]

Control over what?

Over the actions of the political class. Even the lobbyists don't. But they have money. You've got letters and phone calls.

 

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