Livin_the_MASS Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 [quote]as long as you don't actually believe them, they're ok to read for entertainment.[/quote] I would pray on that I would pray hard on that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oik Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 About the Magi...were they Godly people, no. God called them and they answered. God (again) used something that was bad for good. However, God doesn't write the horoscopes in the newspaper, people do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 (edited) This is as bad as saying well it's ok to watch porn as long as you don't enjoy it. Whatever! Horoscopes are wrong. Edited June 7, 2004 by Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 [quote name='Jason' date='Jun 7 2004, 01:38 AM'] This is as bad as saying well it's ok to watch porn as long as you don't enjoy it. Whatever! Horoscopes are wrong. [/quote] Why do you say it's wrong? Pornography causes a person to lust, and it objectifies women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellenita Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Have I misunderstood the purpose of the Catechism? I thought it was to teach us about the Truth and it seems fairly conclusive about why we should have no part in horoscopes and the affront they are to God! The reference again in case anyone missed it in my previous post - 2116. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 What about fortune cookies you get with the egg foo young at the Chinese restaurant? Lately I've been asking that they not put any in my to go orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 [quote][b]Consulting[/b] horoscopes[/quote] I think of consulting as seeking advice. How is it a sin if i'm not seeking advice but merely finding entertainment? BTW, for future reference, I don't read them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 (edited) I tend to view the "horoscopes" printed in newspapers and magazines like fortune cookies. They are amusing, but a scrupulous or superstitious person could definately fall into sin because of them. They definately *can be* an occasion of sin. The Catechism says not to CONSULT horoscopes--that may be the distinguishing difference between saying its relatively harmless to read them and saying its utterly sinful. I personally think that the majority of so-called horoscopes that you find in the daily newspaper or your "fortune" in fortune cookies are written by some poet who needs to make a few extra bucks (they definately aren't something that is being written up for each person individually, if that were the case it certainly would be a form of divination), not anyone who is actually trying to conjure a spirit, so in that sense it could be harmless, but again reading them [b]can be an occasion of sin[/b] and so probably should be avoided. If you actually make a point to read them (even if you don't believe them) every chance you get thats probably a bad idea. (Yes, sometimes when I'm in the doctor's waiting room and I see them in the magazine I'm reading I'll read over them, so I can't really point fingers at anyone else for casually perusing them occasionally.) Remember, we are supposed to try and avoid occasions of sin. [quote]Divination and magic 2115 God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility. 2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to "unveil" the future.48 [u][b]Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone[/b][/u]. 2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one's service and have a supernatural power over others—even if this were for the sake of restoring their health—are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another's credulity[/quote] Edited June 7, 2004 by IcePrincessKRS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 [quote name='Ellenita' date='Jun 2 2004, 05:20 PM'] Personally I think people start out reading them as fun and then before you know it, you have to read them, and then it's only one step on to saying 'hey there is something in this.....' and you're hooked. [/quote] This is pretty much what I was talking about when I said they can be an occasion of sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy the Ninja Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 "Fortune" cookies are not really [i]fortune[/i] cookies anymore. Now they mostly spout platitudes and cliches that we've all heard before. And they were an American invention anyway, so there is no basis for Asian-mysticism in the first place. They are truly ONLY for entertainment. To take stock in anything a fortune cookie says is to take stock in which way the wind blows or what way the sticks fall on the sidewalk. It's just that silly. To believe in what a fortune cookie says is a sin. To believe in what a horoscope says is a sin. To look for a divination of one's future in anything is a sin. To read these things as entertainment is not a sin assuming the reader [i]has the ability to recognize that there are for entertainment only.[/i] Tarot cards borderline this "entertainment" catagory, but fall on the side of sin in and of themselves. (And are probably an entirely different topic waiting to happen). Horoscopes come a VERY close second to tarot cards, and should probably just be avoided unless they are totally ridiculous ones such as are found on The Onion or similiar satire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immaculata Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Hey guys.. I wrote this for our diocesian teen newsletter... I went though this thread and took notes before writing it. I hope I included everything that needed to be said! [quote]Is it ok to read horoscopes? Just about every morning I drag myself out of bed, pour a bowl of cereal, and sit down to read the daily newspaper. As I flip towards the funnies, I sometimes notice the horoscopes that are supposed to predict my future and bring me fame, wealth and happiness. Sometimes people ask, “What’s the big deal about horoscopes? I don’t really take them seriously, they’re only for entertainment after all!” While horoscopes and other fortune telling devices may just seem like fun, they sometimes aren’t as innocent as they look. The Catechism of the Catholic Church doesn’t really say much about Miss Cleo, but it does speak out strongly against divination. “All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to "unveil" the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.” (CCC 2116) Divination is defined as seeking after knowledge of future or hidden things by inadequate means. Inadequate means, such as horoscopes or fortunetellers, are not from God, meaning that they must, therefore, be supplemented by some other evil power. While horoscopes and Ouiji boards seem innocent, their power comes from the devil. Putting our trust in these things opens us up and allows Satan to take control of part of our lives. It can be argued that people who read glance through horoscopes for fun and entertainment are not “consulting” them, or directly seeking advice, and therefore are not directly violating the Catechism. This defining difference boarders on the line of a near occasion of sin. While it is clear that believing in horoscopes is a sin, it is not technically a sin just to read them without putting any belief into the prediction. However, Satan is the great deceiver, and can easily twist something that is good and fun into something evil, which is why we are called to stay away from near occasions of sin. Once a person’s interest is caught by the daily horoscopes, it may lead to fortune telling, tarot cards and other darker forms of witchcraft. For a clearer answer on why horoscopes should be avoided, we can look back one paragraph in the Catechism, where it states, “Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it.” (CCC 2115) Unhealthy curiosity about what is going to happen in our future not only shows a lack of trust in God’s marvelous plan, but it also limits us and blinds us to the amazing blessings He is showering on us today. We may be so busy trying to figure out what’s going to happen in the future that we ignore what God is calling us to do today. As Christians, we should trust in God’s plan for our future and spend our lives doing His will. While a casual reading of horoscopes is not a direct sin, it can often lead into sin. It’s an imprudent practice that can weaken our faith in God and our trust in Providence. We should be trying to become godly people, not to become like God. So tomorrow morning as you’re eating your Wheaties, I suggest skipping right past Madame Zelda’s prediction for the day and reading Charlie Brown and Snoopy instead![/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Sweeeet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 [quote]For a clearer answer on why horoscopes should be avoided, we can look back one paragraph in the Catechism, where it states, “Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it.” (CCC 2115) Unhealthy curiosity about what is going to happen in our future not only shows a lack of trust in God’s marvelous plan, but it also limits us and blinds us to the amazing blessings He is showering on us today. We may be so busy trying to figure out what’s going to happen in the future that we ignore what God is calling us to do today. As Christians, we should trust in God’s plan for our future and spend our lives doing His will.[/quote] What if it's more to make fun of what they say not being true? Just mentioning this as a different reason for wanting to read them. (I don't...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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