Your Thoughts On The Parish System

[Apotheoun]

My main suggestion for making parishes better would be to make them a lot smaller. in fact, they should be small enough that a priest can actually know his parishoners, and in the process really become their spiritual father.

 

In addition - at least based upon my experience over the past 25 years - priests need to be given a better grounding in theology, scripture, liturgy, and in regulating (or even having) a personal prayer life.

 

Postscript: I also think that diocese should be a lot smaller.

[Basilisa Marie]

Sorry I don't mean to be rude, but that is a silly comment. Half the reason there is so much "muddle-headed" thinking today in the area especially of moral theology is a lack of philosophical training.

 

Then teach them moral theology with some philosophy, but they ALSO desperately need some practical, managerial skills. Knowing moral theology isn't always going to equip you to run a parish.  It won't hurt them to replace ONE philosophy class (or whatever) with one on the practicalities of being a good manager. Knowing the theology and philosophy just isn't enough. 

[CatherineM]

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/130766-the-dilbertless-chronicles-our-youth-ministry-team/ These were my thoughts on my parish when I tried to resign from Youth ministry a a couple weeks ago (They wouldn't let me). Parishes are very cliquey and unChristlike in so many ways it's unreal. Our mass is a circus during the school year and the place is a mess.

I'll put you on the list for a free copy of my new book on conflict/proofing your parish.

[GeorgiiMichael]

Then teach them moral theology with some philosophy, but they ALSO desperately need some practical, managerial skills. Knowing moral theology isn't always going to equip you to run a parish.  It won't hurt them to replace ONE philosophy class (or whatever) with one on the practicalities of being a good manager. Knowing the theology and philosophy just isn't enough. 

There's always the possibility of adding a year of seminary and requiring seminarians to take a year's worth of classes on proper management throughout their tenure.

[Era Might]

I went to the 5pm English Mass today (the only English Mass during the week, with just a couple handful of people who attend), which I never do, but I didn't get to Mass in the morning so I had to go late. And, providentially, the priest addressed this very topic. He talked about the Gospel and the narrow gate, and he said he fears Catholics won't be recognized at the gate, because we are strangers to each other in our own churches. And he told a story about a 12 year old boy who came to him last week and said he needed a few minutes, and said he was getting lonely and there was no communication at home, and he was starting to get into drugs and gangs. And long story short, the priest talked about love as the final standard for our lives. The readings today are very relevant to this thread. "There are many who are first who will be last, and the last who will be first." Very important words to heed in the context of our insulated worlds, whether in the parish or in our personal lives. I think I should start attending the weekly English Mass, not for myself, but for the sake of contributing to the small English-speaking segment of the parish.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Era Might

[Era Might]

The priest (a native Spanish speaker) also mentioned that the weekly English Mass is his favorite precisely because it's so small, "we are like family."

[Basilisa Marie]

There's always the possibility of adding a year of seminary and requiring seminarians to take a year's worth of classes on proper management throughout their tenure.

 

Truth.  

[cmaD2006]

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/130766-the-dilbertless-chronicles-our-youth-ministry-team/  These were my thoughts on my parish when I tried to resign from Youth ministry a a couple weeks ago (They wouldn't let me).  Parishes are very cliquey and unChristlike in so many ways it's unreal.  Our mass is a circus during the school year and the place is a mess.  

 

CCC ... you can *always* resign (I'm an expert -- I resigned a youth ministry committee, parish council, and the spanish community council in one fell swoop years ago ... and when I thought it was time to go I simply submitted a letter at parish council). 

 

It's a question (in my opinion) of praying and discerning what God wants.  Now, if you think that you need to be there, it is a different story.  It is sometimes hard to go -- so I hear ya.
 

And I read the link -- it really, really, really reminded me of a typical parish council meeting.  Except instead of 2 hours 5 minutes later it's more like 2 hours 45 minutes later.

 

Although to be fair -- there are times that things do get done.  The "transcript" made me laugh though.

[CatherineM]

My opinion was formed after five years of going to classes with seminarians. They are filled with the spirit and give me real hope for the future of the priesthood. Some of the brightest concern me the most. One could recite Thomas Aquinas to me, but didn't understand how women could experience sins of lust. Another one could speak Latin conversationally, but had no idea that slavery still existed in the world. This was right after some foreign workers had been rescued from a basement here.

There was a nice quote in Shoes of the Fisherman where one of the Cardinals said he often wished that he knew just enough Latin to say mass, and just enough theology to hear confession instead of being a walking talking font of dogma.

[ContemporaryCaflicCrusader]

I'll put you on the list for a free copy of my new book on conflict/proofing your parish.

 

Thank you I am honored but certainly not worthy.

 

Our parish has been at intense civil war since last September when Deacon happened to give a hardcore pro life homily.  Next week Father apologized at every mass and has forbidden deacon to do any homilies since.  Deacon's homily was amazing.  Father is...  well, every parish he has been to in the state he has stomped out the pro life committee.  No worries though our green committee is doing well :puke: .  Here comes the crudey part:  I feel like the Fox in The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe because I am the sexton so Father signs my paychecks and he is a good boss, but  I hang and work with the orthodox families.  Father's orthodoxy...  doesn't really exist.  Deacon really heads our side of this civil war movement and I've dated his daughter a tiny bit.  I mean we are and haven't been an item or anything, but getting close to the people my boss likes least is difficult and I'm always treated like a double agent.  ugh

[ContemporaryCaflicCrusader]

CCC ... you can *always* resign (I'm an expert -- I resigned a youth ministry committee, parish council, and the spanish community council in one fell swoop years ago ... and when I thought it was time to go I simply submitted a letter at parish council). 

 

It's a question (in my opinion) of praying and discerning what God wants.  Now, if you think that you need to be there, it is a different story.  It is sometimes hard to go -- so I hear ya.
 

And I read the link -- it really, really, really reminded me of a typical parish council meeting.  Except instead of 2 hours 5 minutes later it's more like 2 hours 45 minutes later.

 

Although to be fair -- there are times that things do get done.  The "transcript" made me laugh though.

 

ya I hear ya.  I could re sign.  I would look awful and it isn't like me.  On top of it it is my calling.  I tried to resign and do 7th/8th grade CCD with the intentions of picking up the pieces next year.  

 

2 hours and 45 minutes at parish counsil could be somewhat reasonable.  Couldn't tell ya.  Never been to that type of a meeting and your parish is likely bigger.  However,  well over an hour of our meeting was when "Topper" was verbally stroking her own ego.  I am told if things do not improve at meetings that I will be allowed to be AWOL by Father himself.  i don't expect it to improve, unless he lands that committee member which I don't expect, but one never knows.  

[Apotheoun]

The priest (a native Spanish speaker) also mentioned that the weekly English Mass is his favorite precisely because it's so small, "we are like family."

I think parishes should be small enough so that the priest knows his parishoners. I think somewhere between 50 to 100 families would be good.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Apotheoun

[CatholicCid]

I think parishes should be small enough so that the priest knows his parishoners. I think somewhere between 50 to 100 families would be good.

You must have a good memory. For some of us, that would be 5-10 families  :spike:

[Era Might]

I think parishes should be small enough so that the priest knows his parishoners. I think somewhere between 50 to 100 families would be good.

 

Not sure how that could work in modern sociology, but I think the ecclesial movements are essentially a step in that direction. For me the important thing is not so much size but maturity and responsibility within the context of community. I don't think Christian community should revolve around the priest...but he serves a central role, because it is around the altar where the community becomes one.

[BigJon16]

I come from a fairly large parish, one where my pastor--who is the only priest in residence--knows virtually everyone. Having worked as a sacristan I know that it is vary easy to even remember where people sit. It's not a matter of "oh, smaller parishes make for closer knit groups" it's purely a matter of how much effort is being put in to building a community. 

 

I love my parish. It's like a second family to me. These past few days I have been overwhelmed by the love and support of the people of my parish. It is from the people that a man is called forward to be a priest, and as I begin this journey I know that I have been called from some of the best, and without their support I wouldn't be beginning it at all. It's all so humbling.

 

 

Taking a couple more classes will not some how magically impart on a man good personality traits...that's why every seminary in the US concentrates a whole pillar of formation on "personal formation". The four pillars..Human, Academic, Pastoral, and Spiritual. 'Not one pillar and three stumps', as one of my brother seminarians likes to say...

 

 

 

Ill admit, when you said "parish system" I didn't know what you were talking about. Any parish or diocese worth it's salt is not a "system" but a living, breathing member of the Church's body. 

 

Edited August 27, 2013 by BigJon16