I Will Be Restricting Access To Vocation Station

[AccountDeleted]

I used your name, Nunsense, because in the thread called Nunsense Update, someone must have attacked you personally.  You reported it, and the post was edited and the thread closed by a mod:

 

 

 

 

 

I was not attacking you, I was just saying that a mod did respond to your report of a personal attack.

 

 

What you actually said was  'Lately, I have wondered because of the post with the personal attack about Nunsense being edited by a mod at her request, whether some people have more pull than others in having offensive posts removed.'

 

This comment was both inflammatory and untrue. I am not going to explain to you what was written about me or why the mods agreed to remove the post and close the thread - which I asked them to do. It is no one's business but mine. I will ask that you refrain from writing about things that you have no knowledge of and then trying to use them to prove some kind of a point.

 

You insult me by claiming that I have more 'pull' than anyone else, and you insult the mods by intimating that they do not act fairly.

 

I simply don't understand why you can't see how aggressive you sound in your posts, not just to me, but to so many others. Several people have tried to explain the concept of 'tone' to you but you just can't seem to hear them. 

 

Please, please, tone down your responses so that we can all engage in meaningful discussions. :please:  This can be a beautiful place if we work together.

[abrideofChrist]

Actually, Nunsense, I did read the post before it was edited by the mod, and I have a fairly good idea as to why it was removed.  I am sorry you feel insulted by the fact that I speculated why mods took visible action with your post and why they did not take any visible actions in some of the other posts leading up to dUSt's announcement.  Having been in the "inner circle" so to speak in different places, I know that oftentimes action is not taken because good rules have not been carefully crafted to fit the situation, that the hope is that there is a tempest in a teapot that will blow over soon.  Perhaps there are internal rules we are unaware of, like mods not moving threads to the debate table or a three strikes you're out.  I don't know.  That's what I said- I don't know the inner workings.  I also said it would be nice to have some transparent rules so that we do know when someone is out of line.  Is it okay for someone to post lots of posts on humility and charity with the obvious message to someone that they are neither humble nor charitable?  Is it okay to say you'll stalk someone you don't agree with?  These are questions rules can cover.  Personally, I feel one post on any thread about "tone" is more than enough. If someone agrees with someone's reaction to a perceived tone, they can "prop" it.  A rule capping critiques about tone to one post in a thread might be the solution.

[Lil'Nun]

I joined here just for VS. I know I don't post much, but I used to read here a lot. Recent posts and threads have disheartened me greatly and I don't come as often now. VS has become a negative place to be. Additionally, the petty tone of many posts in certain threads has totally discouraged me from investigating certain vocations. (I am not going to go into detail about which posts or threads, nor do I want it discussed.) For these reasons I would prefer the option of limiting access.

[AccountDeleted]

Actually, Nunsense, I did read the post before it was edited by the mod, and I have a fairly good idea as to why it was removed.  I am sorry you feel insulted by the fact that I speculated why mods took visible action with your post and why they did not take any visible actions in some of the other posts leading up to dUSt's announcement.  Having been in the "inner circle" so to speak in different places, I know that oftentimes action is not taken because good rules have not been carefully crafted to fit the situation, that the hope is that there is a tempest in a teapot that will blow over soon.  Perhaps there are internal rules we are unaware of, like mods not moving threads to the debate table or a three strikes you're out.  I don't know.  That's what I said- I don't know the inner workings.  I also said it would be nice to have some transparent rules so that we do know when someone is out of line.  Is it okay for someone to post lots of posts on humility and charity with the obvious message to someone that they are neither humble nor charitable?  Is it okay to say you'll stalk someone you don't agree with?  These are questions rules can cover.  Personally, I feel one post on any thread about "tone" is more than enough. If someone agrees with someone's reaction to a perceived tone, they can "prop" it.  A rule capping critiques about tone to one post in a thread might be the solution.

 

 

I took offence because your speculation was offensive. You are simply unable to see that the 'way' you state things is often the cause of the problem. The reason there are so many posts about your tone is because you don't seem to 'get it'. Your tone is often offensive. Stop please and read that last sentence again. It isn't about rules and regulations written down  - it is about the way we all interact together. If you did not mean to be offensive, then of course I accept your apology. But this comes back to how you come across to others.

 

Some posters on phatmass have psychological problems of one kind or another, and everyone tries to make allowances for those who have explained this. But if a person doesn't let the rest know that they have a problem, then the expectation is that we will all treat each other with respect and courtesy and not get aggressive even if others disagree with what we post or we know we are 'right'. You haven't claimed to have any condition that excuses you from this expectation, so everyone will assume that you are perfectly able to conduct yourself with discretion and self-discipline, which isn't always the case.

 

Lilllabettt explained about the culture here - and how important it is for all of us. To fit in (and it is important that we 'fit in' in the sense that we all cooperate to maintain the environment here) - it is necessary to listen to what others say, to acknowledge it and to respect it- even if we disagree. Becoming aggressive only breeds defensiveness which leads to more aggression.

 

Please take a step back and try to understand that everyone here wants for all of us to get along - for the good of the phorum and all of us. We need to 'play nice' but that can only be done if there are no agendas. You have been perceiving that others are hostile to you. A reaction is caused by an action. Perhaps you have felt defensive because not everyone agrees with some of your statements (or the way you state them perhaps) which has led to aggressive behavior on your part which then leads to more defensiveness for others. We need to get off this carousel that just goes round and round. We need to go to our corners to rest and then return with a sense of community - showing charity and humility in what we post.

 

Sometimes though a person needs to take 'time out' from phatmass or VS just to get a clearer head. Maybe you should think about this - just for a little while. At least until you can see a little bit of what is being said. No one is against you that I am aware of, but many people feel that some of the recent threads have become divisive and that your posts have been aggressive. And we are losing people who used to feel comfortable here but no longer feel that way because of these threads.

 

Perhaps if you simply stopped posting on some of the more divisive threads and let them die a natural death, that would be a good way to show that you want things to get better too. Then at some time you could start up threads in the Debate Table to continue to express your strong opinions about a variety of topics. Don't wait for a mod to move the threads. Just stop posting on them. If you are concerned that others won't have the full background of your arguments, then you can post a link to the original thread when you start the new one. But please let VS go back to being what is has always been - a place of loving support for those discerning religious life, consecrated life of one kind or another, or the priesthood.

 

I know that you could possibly perceive this as a personal attack against you, but believe me, it isn't. You have a lot to offer to phatmass, and your knowledge of canon law is impressive. But your style is more suited to other areas of phatmass than VS, at least at the moment. So give it some consideration please. If you want to discuss this on a PM, I would be happy to do so.

[abrideofChrist]

Nunsense, thank you for expressing your opinion.  I have considered it and will do as I feel best.

[AccountDeleted]

Nunsense, thank you for expressing your opinion.  I have considered it and will do as I feel best.

 

 

Thank you. That's all anyone could ask. :) Peace.

[Pax_et bonum]

A couple of thoughts: While VS is certainly a place where intelligent conversation about vocations may take place, most of us don't have degrees in theology or philosophy. VS is more of a place for a pastoral approach to vocations than scholarly. Not that scholasticism should be discouraged on PM, but even though the topic may be related to vocations, a better place for such a thread may be Transmundane Lane or the Debate Table. As some VS'ers may not venture into those parts of the phorum, posts can be made in VS to let people know of the thread.

 

It's so very important to put forth an extra effort to make sure one's posts are charitable. This can be done by doing something as simple as using the great array of smilies available. Another good practice may be for the reader to assume that others' posts were written with the best intentions until proven otherwise, but of course blatant attacks ought to be reported immediately. No one's perfect so there will be misunderstandings and crankiness, but being charitable and assuming charity may help us get VS back to the friendly place it should be. Another good thing to keep in mind is that this is a public phorum and that anyone online can read what you post. And on that note  :paperbag:

[maximillion]

I too have stayed away recently......

 

 

Certain threads seemed to be more concerned with getting one's point accepted at all costs - including the cost of us losing some people who felt uncomfortable with the tone (as did I).

 

Humility......

 

I will spend some time thinking about humility and praying I may have more of it.

[nikita92]

I thought Vocation Station is about discerning, having discerned etc a vocation to the religious life?? You know...Sisters,nuns,priests,monks,monasteries,convents,habits/no habits communities.....support for those going that way...coming from..etc! The consencreated virgin topic turned into a combative debate...which should have been volley balled in the DEBATE section of PM to begin with! Frankly it was getting way to complicated and hard to understand with the scholar facts and figures and history YADA YADA. Thank you for the insight on what it is and isn't. However, it's not the VOCATION that drew me to this particular arena to begin with. Maybe I am way off base as to what consitutes a VOCATION in this station! Hey...there's one for the debate forum!!!!! Anywho...I agree with Max! Example-Reading Sister Laurel policing other people's posts! (If one thinks someone has committed a infraction-violation against this forum's rules report it and be done with it! ) I submit sticking to the topic in the appropriate forum. Just sayin...

[Lilllabettt]

I don't think any of this is an issue of good or bad. Or even right or wrong. Nothing is going on at VS that would be unacceptable on other boards. It's a cultural issue. That's it. I have participated in the destruction of the culture here a few times ... its easy to get sucked in or trapped in a pattern. But the important thing when you make a mistake is just to acknowledge it so you can move past it. its never too late to do that.

[AccountDeleted]

I don't think any of this is an issue of good or bad. Or even right or wrong. Nothing is going on at VS that would be unacceptable on other boards. It's a cultural issue. That's it. I have participated in the destruction of the culture here a few times ... its easy to get sucked in or trapped in a pattern. But the important thing when you make a mistake is just to acknowledge it so you can move past it. its never too late to do that.

 

 

You've nailed it Lilllabettt. It's not about right or wrong or what is an objective truth and what is a subjective truth etc, it is about what VS is all about and what belongs here and what doesn't. A lot of posters on VS don't go many other places on phatmass. They don't want debates or conflicts or even lessons in canon law or theology. They want a culture that encourages discussion of vocations in a companionable and supportive environment.

 

When the culture gets ruptured it is so easy to join in the chaos that follows - I know it personally myself. That's why we have to take a step back from the edge of the cliff now. We can do that by allowing the divisive threads to die by not posting or responding in them (and there are several of these) - those who still want to discuss these topics would be doing everyone in VS a favor if they would take the conversations over to the Debate Table or Transmundane Lane. This is our backyard and we need to be responsible for taking care of it.

 

Very well put Lilllabettt.

Edited August 22, 2013 by nunsense

[abrideofChrist]

I thought Vocation Station is about discerning, having discerned etc a vocation to the religious life?? You know...Sisters,nuns,priests,monks,monasteries,convents,habits/no habits communities.....support for those going that way...coming from..etc! The consencreated virgin topic turned into a combative debate...which should have been volley balled in the DEBATE section of PM to begin with! Frankly it was getting way to complicated and hard to understand with the scholar facts and figures and history YADA YADA. Thank you for the insight on what it is and isn't. However, it's not the VOCATION that drew me to this particular arena to begin with. Maybe I am way off base as to what consitutes a VOCATION in this station! Hey...there's one for the debate forum!!!!! Anywho...I agree with Max! Example-Reading Sister Laurel policing other people's posts! (If one thinks someone has committed a infraction-violation against this forum's rules report it and be done with it! ) I submit sticking to the topic in the appropriate forum. Just sayin...

 

Well, the Bride of Christ thread started out with two posts that were certainly not combative but explanatory in nature.  Why would it have been put in the Debate Table to begin with?  There were people who called for the thread to be moved and the mods chose not to.  Also, dUSt may have forthcoming clarifications on the kinds of vocations allowed in the VS.  Consecrated virginity is relevant to religious life because some religious can become CVs and there is a whole Rite of Profession of Solemn Vows and Consecration of Virginity for them in the Roman Pontifical.  Surely if we can discuss habits vs. no habits, we can also discuss consecrated virgin nuns vs non consecrated virgin nuns and tease out the meaning of consecrated virginity per se since it is not intrinsic to the religious vocation.  Religious life for women originated from groups of consecrated virgins and so the theology is deeply intertwined. This is dUSt's forum, and he can run it however he chooses.  I support his decision for his forum whatever it is.  Meanwhile, I will do what other people do here, which is to post on threads that they feel like posting on. 

[AccountDeleted]

deep sigh 

 

Back on the carousel again

 

:cry:  :sad:  :deadhorse:

[dUSt]

OK, I have decided not to micromanage individual boards as far as restricting members. Instead, the mods will be using the warning system to warn certain members. Multiple warns will result in a suspension from phatmass. If you engage in debate in the Vocation Station, you will get warned. Habitual debating in Vocation Station will result in a ban.

 

[Pia Jesu]

Though a relatively new member...it was disappointing to read heavy-handed responses to posts  I must commend

those who always seem to respond in a re-affirming, apologetic way to hurtful comments.

Thanks dUSt!