My Parish Confusion

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

Over the past year I've delt with a confusing parish situaition. Most of the confusion comes from dealing with the priest. He comes across as very orthodox with me, but I have heard hime speak vaguely about these same topics in classes he's lead. This makes me unsure how to veiw him. Typically I have given the most whieght to what he said in our private conversations. On the other hand, I've gotten a clear impression that the lay leadership is very liberal. Since, I'm confused I decided to post a summary of my parish situation (sorry it's long). This is so I can get some feedback on the situation. While I may never do anything about any problems I do not want to wrongly label someone as unorthodox. Especially someone like my priest. I really like and respect him; he's a great person. Because of my opinion of him I worry about coming to conclusions that are false. As a result, I wanted to obtain some additional feedback. I know it's different reading a post and actually being in the situation, but I did my best to try to accurately illustrate what I have seen. In this post I will mention some of my RCIA experiences because they are relevent to my conversations with my pastor. I want to emphasize that this is not ment to be a complaint I love every one at my parish (especially my priest) and want to draw an accurate conclusion. My continued thinking about this subject has made me feel guilty. This is my true reason for asking

 

Like I said I don't have an entirely clear view of my priests beliefs.  For him all I have is that he omits the word "men" from the creed. There was also an incident where he was performing the anointing of the sick and had no problem with my RCIA class laying our hands on the recipient (while he was ministering the sacrament). From there I just have some confusing incidents. For example he told me he'd like to see the congregation kneel during the consecration because it was respectful and that he had been quietly encouraging it. When he spoke on the same topic at my RCIA class he implied that standing was just as good during the consecration. He used the Eastern rites as an example of why it was okay in a latin rite parish. The problem is that the different cultures have different ways of showing reverence. To say that kneeling was an American thing and so was okay to dismiss, isn't right. A month later, in another private conversation, he told me the same thing about wanting kneeling. He did a similar thing with women priests. In speaking at a class, he leads, he mentioned there being women leaders in the early church (which is true). He went on to say that he wasn't going to say that they were priests and bishops, but that we knew what he was saying without him saying it. When asked why the Church didn't ordain women he said that we weren't sure on their role at that time. He said that they may have been ordained as an experiment or that they may have helped the priests in a non-ordained role. He then said nobody knew, when asked which perspective he thought was right, he replied that he didn't know. After that he went on to talk about how women were ordained in communist countries. He emphasized that this saved the Church in those nations. The whole conversation was fairly vague. On the other hand when I mentioned to him that our RCIA leader supported women priests he seemed very much bothered by this. When it was just us, he seemed clearly against women's ordination.

 

In addition there have been other interesting things. On three occasions he told me that my sins were forgiven before I came to confession. Also, there was a Mass where he announced that he was going to do something that was unorthodox. He followed this with a sarcastic comment about it being unusual for him. Lastly, he said that it was technically okay to call God “mother”. I know God doesn't have a gender, but, from my understanding, this is taking it too far.

 

This was concurrent with some clear problems with my RCIA instructers. It was lead by a husband and wife team; they are also the pastoral associates. Prior to the Easter Vigil, they called God “it,” said that while the Church teaches that Mary remained a virgin, there was no evidence for it and so we didn't have to accept that doctrine. They also implied that the pope could be female and provided reading material that had hints of Liberation Theology (one atricle was written by the nun who wrote “The She Who Is” which the bishops spoke out against). Right before the Vigil I noticed that they were advertising a group that supported Gay marriage, liberation theology, women's ordination, and was against priestly celibacy. Later I discovered our Bishop didn't even allow this group to advertise in the dioscian newspaper. They were very much against the Church. All of this bothered me and I resolved to meet with my priest as soon as I was confirmed. I didn't want any problems to come up before the Vigil.

 

So when I met with my priest I brought up all of my concerns. He found them to be valid and was very bothered. On the other hand, this conversation was where the thing about calling God “mother” came up. I should mention that I asked him about the fact that we don't kneel in our parish.

 

So I chose to leave it at that, but became concerned when I didn't see changes. This was partly do to impatience. My concerns didn't completely flair up until the next RCIA class, during Mystagogy. Someone asked him about kneeling and he replied in a way that was different than what he told me durring our meeting (this is all in the first post). This made me feel that he contradicted himself and while this was a minor topic it mad e me wonder about the rest of our meeting. There is something else I want to mention. I wrote down an anonymous question about mortal and venial sins. When he answered the only time he mentioned mortal sin was when reading my question. Iin his answer it came across as if he was saying that the criterai for mortal sin was used to determine whether or not an action was sinful. From our private conversations he has come across as believing in mortal and venial sins and even seemed to think that it was reasonable to abstain from communion if you were in mortal sin. Also, he did tell the congregation that the idea that we don't need confession was false. In addition, we had a retreat where a very orthodox person spoke about the necessity of confession, mortal sin, and Hell. During the same class my RCIA instructers talked about how liturgical variety was a good thing (within the same rite) and how there are views on how to interpret the rubrics. One said that they should be followed exactly and the other was that they were the bare minumum and were more like guidelines. They came across as supporting the latter, in the class and even more so in a private conversation I had with them. I wonder if his comments about our sins being forgiven before confession should be understood in this light.

So after this conversation my suspicions were back and I decided to ask questions to find out more clearly what my RCIA instructers believed. I wanted to know so that I could notify my more orthodox classmates. Before I did so I wanted to be 100% certain. During one lesson our teachers spoke of Liberation Theology as if it were a legitamate theological alternative. I had one conversation with one of the teachers about women priests. She said she wanted women to be ordained and used Galileo to support her claim that the Church could change this doctrine. My next conversation involved her husband (the other teacher) and the head of my parish's social justice committee (she is very vocal about the need for women priests). They were talking about a speaker they liked and how it was a shame that he wasn't allowed to speak in the churches within a certain diocese. The Bishop didn't allow people who disagreed with Church doctrine to do so. I was sittign near them and so this conversation made me curious. I asked what this speaker supported. I was told that he was one that would advocate for the end of priestly celibacy, gay marriage, and women priests. I repsonded by mentioning that the Bible clearly forbade gay marriage. He responded by presenting some typical secular arguments in favor of gay marriage and by saying that some would say that those Biblical passages were meant for specific cultures during a specific time. I responded with an appeal to Church authority. They responded by citing Galileo and witch burnings. I want to mention that I'm 100% sure that my priest opposes gay marriage. During Mystogogy, I also discovered thay our pastor requested that my RCIA teachers come to this parish (I heard that this was primarily due to their organizational skills) and that they had been close friends for a long time.

 

Originally I wasn't going to take this information to my priest, but eventually I decided that I needed to. During our meeting I presented all of it to him, in addition to re-mentioning the topics from our first meeting I showed how the new information confirmed my fears from the first time we met. He was very concerned and told me he would talk to them to see what they ment by their comments. During this meeting he recommended some books that were written by very orthodox authors.

 

Over the next month I didn't see any change, granted it wasn't likely that I would. And every now and then I would become suspicious, but I would dismiss those feelings. They didn't surface completely until I became frustrated with my priest, over a different matter. He did nothing wrong, my frustration came purely from my own faults.This makes me question my motives and is part of the reason I'm asking here. I know longer trust my self to make a reasonable assessment of the situation. What I noticed was that my RCIA teachers/ pastoral associates are still largely in controll of the faith formation. I did notice that there was a new staff member for the RCIA. In addition, my priest mentioned becoming more involved with the periodic faith formation sessions. This was in the context of talking about RCIA, but he gave an interval of time that was different than the one between RCIA classes. I do know that my teachers are the ones to go to for information on adult faith formation programs, which indicates that they have a leadership role. I do believe that expecting their removal would have been unrealistic.

 

I do want to talk about two more interesting liturgical practices I saw during Holy Week. I don't know how responsible the priest is, but I think the may be relevent. First, my parih's has a Holy Thursday tradition where we wash eachother's feet. Our pastor washes the feet of seven people They then let someone else take their seet and then wash their feet. Then those people wash the feet of another person. This process continues until everyone who want to get their feet wash does so. The priest only washes the feet of the first seven people. Then on the Easter Vigil the readings were done oddly. The reading from Genesis was rread by someone who sttod in the back of the sanctuary. After each day, the choir sung something about the day passing (it sounded like a musical version of some of the verese in Genesis). During the Exodus reading the choir interupted the reader after every paragraph with clapping. This was followed by them singing the canticle that's usually sung at the end of the reading. We had another reading where two people stood in the ambo together. They took turns reading and occasionally read in unison.

 

So what are your oppinions on this?

 

Edited August 18, 2013 by Poorly Catechized Convert

[Gabriela]

If I were you, I'd run as fast as I could to another parish. If there weren't another one in my locale, I'd edumucate myself real good-like here on PM, with books, websites, etc. so I could distinguish between Magisterium-faithful teachings and "other". Then, in the very first possible second, I'd run as fast as I could to another parish.

 

I mean fast.

[Basilisa Marie]

Okay, wow, that's a lot of stuff.

 

Instead of addressing all of that individually, I'm going to give you my general impression.  It seems to me that there is one of three things going on.  The first option is that it could be that your pastor is telling you the truth of his opinions, and personally believes orthodox things, but is putting on a show for the liberal members of his staff. He may be afraid of rocking the boat to much, worried that everyone would leave if he took a more authoritarian position on things, or maybe hates confrontation. The second option is that it could be that your pastor is trying to tell you what he thinks you want to hear, but in public and with others he expresses his true, unorthodox opinion. The third option is that his beliefs are mixed, and he's trying to play all sides.  

No matter which option is the truth of the situation, what we DO know is that you're getting mixed messages at your parish, and the "liberal" people at your church aren't going anywhere anytime soon.  If you were someone who was a cradle Catholic and strong in his faith, I would recommend getting in touch with your priest's dean (head of his deanery) and express your concerns, and if that didn't work get in touch with the bishop.  But because you're so "young" in the faith, I think it would be better for your own spiritual welfare to attend some faith formation classes at another parish, or move parishes all together.  Being a new Catholic is hard enough as it is, with it's own challenges. You don't need the extra ones that your parish is giving you.  

If it was one or two or even three of those things going on, I don't think it would be a big deal.  Omitting "men" from the Creed might have just been his way of trying to give pastoral care to a large community that was sensitive to inclusive language, and the laying on of hands during prayer is okay even though it's confusing to do it during a sacrament because it obscures the message of who the minister of the sacrament is, and kneeling and standing are issues that bishops usually make pronouncements on for individual dioceses.  But those combined with everything else, especially his comments about women priests, make one big fat red flag.  From what you've said, it doesn't sound like your pastor is actually interested in making your faith formation program orthodox, so I'd at least get your education elsewhere, even if you wanted to keep going there for Sunday mass.  

[Apotheoun]

Do you live near an Eastern Catholic Church?

[Basilisa Marie]

Do you live near an Eastern Catholic Church?

 

Hey, quit trying to steal our baby Latins away from us!  :hehe2:

 

 

 

 

But seriously, faith formation classes at an Eastern Rite parish (that's different from Eastern Orthodox, mind you) have a strong chance of being orthodox.  You're generally less likely to get weird stuff, especially if you're not getting any luck at your local Latin rite parishes. 

Edited August 18, 2013 by Basilisa Marie

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

Thanks for the replies. I really appreciate the feedback.

 

If I were you, I'd run as fast as I could to another parish. If there weren't another one in my locale, I'd edumucate myself real good-like here on PM, with books, websites, etc. so I could distinguish between Magisterium-faithful teachings and "other". Then, in the very first possible second, I'd run as fast as I could to another parish.

 

I mean fast.

 

 

Okay, wow, that's a lot of stuff.

 

Instead of addressing all of that individually, I'm going to give you my general impression.  It seems to me that there is one of three things going on.  The first option is that it could be that your pastor is telling you the truth of his opinions, and personally believes orthodox things, but is putting on a show for the liberal members of his staff. He may be afraid of rocking the boat to much, worried that everyone would leave if he took a more authoritarian position on things, or maybe hates confrontation. The second option is that it could be that your pastor is trying to tell you what he thinks you want to hear, but in public and with others he expresses his true, unorthodox opinion. The third option is that his beliefs are mixed, and he's trying to play all sides.  

No matter which option is the truth of the situation, what we DO know is that you're getting mixed messages at your parish, and the "liberal" people at your church aren't going anywhere anytime soon.  If you were someone who was a cradle Catholic and strong in his faith, I would recommend getting in touch with your priest's dean (head of his deanery) and express your concerns, and if that didn't work get in touch with the bishop.  But because you're so "young" in the faith, I think it would be better for your own spiritual welfare to attend some faith formation classes at another parish, or move parishes all together.  Being a new Catholic is hard enough as it is, with it's own challenges. You don't need the extra ones that your parish is giving you.  

If it was one or two or even three of those things going on, I don't think it would be a big deal.  Omitting "men" from the Creed might have just been his way of trying to give pastoral care to a large community that was sensitive to inclusive language, and the laying on of hands during prayer is okay even though it's confusing to do it during a sacrament because it obscures the message of who the minister of the sacrament is, and kneeling and standing are issues that bishops usually make pronouncements on for individual dioceses.  But those combined with everything else, especially his comments about women priests, make one big fat red flag.  From what you've said, it doesn't sound like your pastor is actually interested in making your faith formation program orthodox, so I'd at least get your education elsewhere, even if you wanted to keep going there for Sunday mass.  

 

About the kneeling: I wasn't so bothered by the fact that we didn't kneel, but by the fact that my priest said one thing to me and something different to my RCIA class. I'm not sure that our bishop has lifted the requirement to kneel between the Sanctus and Great Amen; I know he did so for after the Agnus Die. According to my RCIA teacher our former bishop had attempted to get rid of kneeling completely and so our parish was built without kneelers to accommodate his vision. I don't know if he really tried to do this, but I know that it's still the norm, in our diocese, to kneel between the Sanctus and the Great Amen. My priest did tell me that our bishop gave us permission to not kneel during this segment. So there very well could be no worries. I just didn't like him telling me he had been encouraging it and hoped more people would begin kneeling and then tell my RCIA class that it was just as good to stand and that kneeling was more of an American thing. He clearly wasn't encouraging it and I'd assume if he wanted to see kneeling he would have mentioned that to my class. His attitude seemed very different.

 

 

There are some good parishes in my area. There is actually one that I like a lot (the priest seems more orthodox and the Mass is more reverent) and I have been trying to attend there on most weeks. There's also a parish that offers the Extraordinary form that I have thought about joining. My problem is that after talking to my priest, I want to believe him and get rid of all my doubts. So it becomes hard to separate completely. Also, before Mystagogy ended, I met the next class. Hearing why they wanted to become Catholic filled me with sorrow. I knew what they will receive from the teachers and that it won't be the orthodox expression of the faith they sought to enter. I wanted to try to change the parish. I agree that it's probably best for me not to do so, at this time.

 

Do you live near an Eastern Catholic Church?

 

I'm not sure. If I did, I'd love to attend the Divine Liturgy.

Edited August 18, 2013 by Poorly Catechized Convert

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

Sorry for the double post. I wanted to add a couple of things to see if they change anyone's opinions. These weren't left out intentionally, it's just that a lot has happened in the past year. This should be way shorter than my first post.

 

My priest has given a homily against gay marriage and wrote articles against it in the bulletin. He also gave a homily against the HHS Mandate and the requirement to supply contraceptives. In addition my RCIA teacher mentioned the Church teaching on contraception.

 

About my priests comments on women priests: after the segment in my original post he began talking about deaconesses. He told us they existed in the early Church (this is true), but we didn't know if they were ordained or if they assisted in non-ordained roles (I thought we did know this). He finished by telling us that he thought the Church was dragging her s feet on this issue and that it was important for the Church to come a decision on this. He ended the talk by telling us he was not a heretic and that the Church would support his views.

 

Once my priest approached the alter, before Mass, and told us to introduce ourselves to those around us. This was followed by parishioner walking around the sanctuary shaking hands and talking. It was fairly loud. Since this happened immediately before the procession I highly doubt that it's an abuse, but I have been told that such actions, in the Sanctuary, aren't a good sign. Thoughts?

 

So do these things change anyone's opinion? Maybe these aren't relevant, but I thought that I might as well mention them.

 

Edited August 19, 2013 by Poorly Catechized Convert

[MIKolbe]

Over the past year I've delt with a confusing parish situaition. Most of the confusion comes from dealing with the priest. He comes across as very orthodox with me, but I have heard hime speak vaguely about these same topics in classes he's lead. This makes me unsure how to veiw him. Typically I have given the most whieght to what he said in our private conversations. On the other hand, I've gotten a clear impression that the lay leadership is very liberal. Since, I'm confused I decided to post a summary of my parish situation (sorry it's long). This is so I can get some feedback on the situation. While I may never do anything about any problems I do not want to wrongly label someone as unorthodox. Especially someone like my priest. I really like and respect him; he's a great person. Because of my opinion of him I worry about coming to conclusions that are false. As a result, I wanted to obtain some additional feedback. I know it's different reading a post and actually being in the situation, but I did my best to try to accurately illustrate what I have seen. In this post I will mention some of my RCIA experiences because they are relevent to my conversations with my pastor. I want to emphasize that this is not ment to be a complaint I love every one at my parish (especially my priest) and want to draw an accurate conclusion. My continued thinking about this subject has made me feel guilty. This is my true reason for asking

 

Like I said I don't have an entirely clear view of my priests beliefs.  For him all I have is that he omits the word "men" from the creed. There was also an incident where he was performing the anointing of the sick and had no problem with my RCIA class laying our hands on the recipient (while he was ministering the sacrament). From there I just have some confusing incidents. For example he told me he'd like to see the congregation kneel during the consecration because it was respectful and that he had been quietly encouraging it. When he spoke on the same topic at my RCIA class he implied that standing was just as good during the consecration. He used the Eastern rites as an example of why it was okay in a latin rite parish. The problem is that the different cultures have different ways of showing reverence. To say that kneeling was an American thing and so was okay to dismiss, isn't right. A month later, in another private conversation, he told me the same thing about wanting kneeling. He did a similar thing with women priests. In speaking at a class, he leads, he mentioned there being women leaders in the early church (which is true). He went on to say that he wasn't going to say that they were priests and bishops, but that we knew what he was saying without him saying it. When asked why the Church didn't ordain women he said that we weren't sure on their role at that time. He said that they may have been ordained as an experiment or that they may have helped the priests in a non-ordained role. He then said nobody knew, when asked which perspective he thought was right, he replied that he didn't know. After that he went on to talk about how women were ordained in communist countries. He emphasized that this saved the Church in those nations. The whole conversation was fairly vague. On the other hand when I mentioned to him that our RCIA leader supported women priests he seemed very much bothered by this. When it was just us, he seemed clearly against women's ordination.

 

In addition there have been other interesting things. On three occasions he told me that my sins were forgiven before I came to confession. Also, there was a Mass where he announced that he was going to do something that was unorthodox. He followed this with a sarcastic comment about it being unusual for him. Lastly, he said that it was technically okay to call God “mother”. I know God doesn't have a gender, but, from my understanding, this is taking it too far.

 

This was concurrent with some clear problems with my RCIA instructers. It was lead by a husband and wife team; they are also the pastoral associates. Prior to the Easter Vigil, they called God “it,” said that while the Church teaches that Mary remained a virgin, there was no evidence for it and so we didn't have to accept that doctrine. They also implied that the pope could be female and provided reading material that had hints of Liberation Theology (one atricle was written by the nun who wrote “The She Who Is” which the bishops spoke out against). Right before the Vigil I noticed that they were advertising a group that supported Gay marriage, liberation theology, women's ordination, and was against priestly celibacy. Later I discovered our Bishop didn't even allow this group to advertise in the dioscian newspaper. They were very much against the Church. All of this bothered me and I resolved to meet with my priest as soon as I was confirmed. I didn't want any problems to come up before the Vigil.

 

So when I met with my priest I brought up all of my concerns. He found them to be valid and was very bothered. On the other hand, this conversation was where the thing about calling God “mother” came up. I should mention that I asked him about the fact that we don't kneel in our parish.

 

So I chose to leave it at that, but became concerned when I didn't see changes. This was partly do to impatience. My concerns didn't completely flair up until the next RCIA class, during Mystagogy. Someone asked him about kneeling and he replied in a way that was different than what he told me durring our meeting (this is all in the first post). This made me feel that he contradicted himself and while this was a minor topic it mad e me wonder about the rest of our meeting. There is something else I want to mention. I wrote down an anonymous question about mortal and venial sins. When he answered the only time he mentioned mortal sin was when reading my question. Iin his answer it came across as if he was saying that the criterai for mortal sin was used to determine whether or not an action was sinful. From our private conversations he has come across as believing in mortal and venial sins and even seemed to think that it was reasonable to abstain from communion if you were in mortal sin. Also, he did tell the congregation that the idea that we don't need confession was false. In addition, we had a retreat where a very orthodox person spoke about the necessity of confession, mortal sin, and Hell. During the same class my RCIA instructers talked about how liturgical variety was a good thing (within the same rite) and how there are views on how to interpret the rubrics. One said that they should be followed exactly and the other was that they were the bare minumum and were more like guidelines. They came across as supporting the latter, in the class and even more so in a private conversation I had with them. I wonder if his comments about our sins being forgiven before confession should be understood in this light.

So after this conversation my suspicions were back and I decided to ask questions to find out more clearly what my RCIA instructers believed. I wanted to know so that I could notify my more orthodox classmates. Before I did so I wanted to be 100% certain. During one lesson our teachers spoke of Liberation Theology as if it were a legitamate theological alternative. I had one conversation with one of the teachers about women priests. She said she wanted women to be ordained and used Galileo to support her claim that the Church could change this doctrine. My next conversation involved her husband (the other teacher) and the head of my parish's social justice committee (she is very vocal about the need for women priests). They were talking about a speaker they liked and how it was a shame that he wasn't allowed to speak in the churches within a certain diocese. The Bishop didn't allow people who disagreed with Church doctrine to do so. I was sittign near them and so this conversation made me curious. I asked what this speaker supported. I was told that he was one that would advocate for the end of priestly celibacy, gay marriage, and women priests. I repsonded by mentioning that the Bible clearly forbade gay marriage. He responded by presenting some typical secular arguments in favor of gay marriage and by saying that some would say that those Biblical passages were meant for specific cultures during a specific time. I responded with an appeal to Church authority. They responded by citing Galileo and witch burnings. I want to mention that I'm 100% sure that my priest opposes gay marriage. During Mystogogy, I also discovered thay our pastor requested that my RCIA teachers come to this parish (I heard that this was primarily due to their organizational skills) and that they had been close friends for a long time.

 

Originally I wasn't going to take this information to my priest, but eventually I decided that I needed to. During our meeting I presented all of it to him, in addition to re-mentioning the topics from our first meeting I showed how the new information confirmed my fears from the first time we met. He was very concerned and told me he would talk to them to see what they ment by their comments. During this meeting he recommended some books that were written by very orthodox authors.

 

Over the next month I didn't see any change, granted it wasn't likely that I would. And every now and then I would become suspicious, but I would dismiss those feelings. They didn't surface completely until I became frustrated with my priest, over a different matter. He did nothing wrong, my frustration came purely from my own faults.This makes me question my motives and is part of the reason I'm asking here. I know longer trust my self to make a reasonable assessment of the situation. What I noticed was that my RCIA teachers/ pastoral associates are still largely in controll of the faith formation. I did notice that there was a new staff member for the RCIA. In addition, my priest mentioned becoming more involved with the periodic faith formation sessions. This was in the context of talking about RCIA, but he gave an interval of time that was different than the one between RCIA classes. I do know that my teachers are the ones to go to for information on adult faith formation programs, which indicates that they have a leadership role. I do believe that expecting their removal would have been unrealistic.

 

I do want to talk about two more interesting liturgical practices I saw during Holy Week. I don't know how responsible the priest is, but I think the may be relevent. First, my parih's has a Holy Thursday tradition where we wash eachother's feet. Our pastor washes the feet of seven people They then let someone else take their seet and then wash their feet. Then those people wash the feet of another person. This process continues until everyone who want to get their feet wash does so. The priest only washes the feet of the first seven people. Then on the Easter Vigil the readings were done oddly. The reading from Genesis was rread by someone who sttod in the back of the sanctuary. After each day, the choir sung something about the day passing (it sounded like a musical version of some of the verese in Genesis). During the Exodus reading the choir interupted the reader after every paragraph with clapping. This was followed by them singing the canticle that's usually sung at the end of the reading. We had another reading where two people stood in the ambo together. They took turns reading and occasionally read in unison.

 

So what are your oppinions on this?

 

http://tinyurl.com/lcda2zs

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

I really am sorry about the length. Usually I'd be way shorter; in this case I feared that if I were too brief I'd portray my parish as either clearly bad or clearly good. I wanted to illustrate my confusion and the conflicting information I had received. I wanted to be fair to my parish and also show what concerned me. I felt that this length was the best way to demonstrate that. Again, I'm terribly sorry that my post was so long.

[cmaD2006]

Poorly Cathechized Convert:

 

If you finished RCIA, and your parish is getting to you (for whatever reason -- including what you said above) then I would suggest, if it is possible, to leave the parish.

 

Staying at the parish may leave you without peace.

 

Having said that, if a) you haven't finished RCIA and/or b) due to distance/transportation, you are stuck at the parish then focus on one thing.  The Eucharist.  The priest is still a priest, and when He consecrates, it is still Jesus. The man can be the greatest sinner in the world, but Jesus still makes Himself present in spite of it. Focus on that, until you are able to move onto a different parish.

 

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

Poorly Cathechized Convert:

 

If you finished RCIA, and your parish is getting to you (for whatever reason -- including what you said above) then I would suggest, if it is possible, to leave the parish.

 

Staying at the parish may leave you without peace.

 

Having said that, if a) you haven't finished RCIA and/or b) due to distance/transportation, you are stuck at the parish then focus on one thing.  The Eucharist.  The priest is still a priest, and when He consecrates, it is still Jesus. The man can be the greatest sinner in the world, but Jesus still makes Himself present in spite of it. Focus on that, until you are able to move onto a different parish.

 

Thanks, I have been trying to leave, but that makes me feel guilty. I feel like I'm passing judgement on my priest's orthodoxy, without knowing enough. Since I have a good relationship with him, I don't want to do that. I want to believe what I have been told privately; at the same time there is some conflict between that and what I see publically. Granted it's not a lot.  You are right and I'll continue to try to fully join another parish. Although, It will continue to be difficult. Doing so will be possible, there's a parish that's close by and it's very good and the priest is definitely more reverent. I love attending Mass there.Thanks again.

[cmaD2006]

:) PCC -- don't feel guilty.  If you're more comfortable at the other parish then that is awesome ... that will help you grow too.  You need to be where you won't be as tempted to leave.

 

The old parish served it's purpose at the time -- you got through RCIA there.  Be thankful for that.  It doesn't mean that you can't go and visit every so often, and say hi to the priest too :).

[Jaime]

http://tinyurl.com/lcda2zs

 

I don't care who you are, that's funny!

[Basilisa Marie]

Thanks, I have been trying to leave, but that makes me feel guilty. I feel like I'm passing judgement on my priest's orthodoxy, without knowing enough. Since I have a good relationship with him, I don't want to do that. I want to believe what I have been told privately; at the same time there is some conflict between that and what I see publically. Granted it's not a lot.  You are right and I'll continue to try to fully join another parish. Although, It will continue to be difficult. Doing so will be possible, there's a parish that's close by and it's very good and the priest is definitely more reverent. I love attending Mass there.Thanks again.

 

If you want, you could tell the priest "it's not you, it's your staff" or something, if that would make you feel better. :)

 

You have a right to proper education.  There's stuff in canon law about it! Don't feel bad for exercising your rights.  If anything it might help send a message to your priest that he needs to do more to shape up his faith formation program (like get different people in there), or there'll be more consequences like people leaving. 

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

:) PCC -- don't feel guilty.  If you're more comfortable at the other parish then that is amesome ... that will help you grow too.  You need to be where you won't be as tempted to leave.

 

The old parish served it's purpose at the time -- you got through RCIA there.  Be thankful for that.  It doesn't mean that you can't go and visit every so often, and say hi to the priest too :).

 

 

If you want, you could tell the priest "it's not you, it's your staff" or something, if that would make you feel better. :)

 

You have a right to proper education.  There's stuff in canon law about it! Don't feel bad for exercising your rights.  If anything it might help send a message to your priest that he needs to do more to shape up his faith formation program (like get different people in there), or there'll be more consequences like people leaving. 

 

Thanks. I probably will go back to visit him. About mentioning that I'm leaving because of the staff, that's a good idea. One of my classmates had suggested it (I was thinking about leaving before my second meeting with our pastor), but I didn't want to mention that at the time. Maybe I will now; I guess he should know. My problem is that I consider my RCIA teachers to be friends, so I don't want to blame them for my leaving.

 

Well new people have become involved with the faith formation program. One of my RCIA classmates (she is orthodox) has become with the elementary school faith formation and she, along with our RCIA teachers is leading a new parish program. It's JustFaith Ministry's new program; I heard they have hints of Liberation Theology, but I'm not sure. We also have a new person on the RCIA team and our priest says he taking a more direct role with the faith formation. Although, this would still leave my teachers considerable freedom. They are the pastoral associates and have the opportunities to advocate their views. They even believe that our priest is okay with their views; they quoted one of his homilies to demonstrate that point (I forgot to mention this out our last meeting). Honestly these addition probably won't be enough, but I'm not sure what to expect.

 

I guess with all of these things it will be best to leave. I would never get involved with an adult faith formation program. They would be primarily discussion based, which means unorthodoxy will definitely creep in. And I have heard bad things about their scripture study program. So you're all correct, I if I want good faith formation I need to leave. And I definitely need good faith formation right now.

 

Thanks again.