Muslim Brotherhood Sets St. George Church Ablaze

[KnightofChrist]

Well if it's a fact in your mind I guess that settles it.

 

I'm not an X-man, I don't have the ability to make my thoughts into historical facts.
 

[Apotheoun]

Each man has his own life to live. If you feel like your life is bound up with their plight, then live your life accordingly, give all the aid you wish, and accept all the consequences. But I do not see the world as a medieval crusade.

I am a Christian, and so I do not believe that each man is an island, an individual in isolation. Salvation is an ecclesial reality. As Jesus said, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?"

[Era Might]

I am a Christian, and so I do not believe that each man is an island, an individual in isolation. Salvation is an ecclesial reality. As Jesus said, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?"

 

I am not Coptic Orthodox.

[Apotheoun]

I am not Coptic Orthodox.

As an Eastern Catholic I am one with the Coptic Orthodox. We share one and the same baptism, we share the same Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist. The Copts are my brothers.

[Era Might]

As an Eastern Catholic I am one with the Coptic Orthodox. We share one and the same baptism, we share the same Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist. The Copts are my brothers.

 

As I said, each man has his own life to lead. If you identify with Copts because they are Copts, that is your life. Just don't make the mistake of thinking the world does or should revolve around your conceptions. Give your witness.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Era Might

[Apotheoun]

As I said, each man has his own life to lead. If you identify with Copts because they are Copts, that is your life. Just don't make the mistake of thinking the world does or should revolve around you.

I am a Christian, and so I cannot agree with your individualist viewpoint. The Church's doctrine of the Trinity is an icon of mankind's unity as persons within one nature. We are - as scripture teaches - our brother's keeper.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Aloysius]

now that I'm stuck inside by military curfew I guess I have nothing better to do than argue on the internet lol.  honestly, I don't understand why a military backed by millions of protesters is a "coup", but if those millions of protesters had taken up arms themselves it would've been a "revolution".  the fact is that it was a mix between revolution and coup... if Sisi had not stepped in, many of those people in the military along with many of the people that were on the streets may have had to be a revolutionary militia, there was no feasible way Morsi could've stayed in power and the actions of the military were justified I think.  the Morsi government was awful, many of the people I've talked to here that participated in the 2011 Tahrir Square protests would have rather had Mubarak than Morsi.  The MB had no right to rule the way they did, they had the mistaken impression that just because you're elected you have the right to govern others however you and your supporters want to, which is a fallacy many supporters of democracy in the West constantly fall into but which has had disastrous consequences for Middle Eastern minority groups... and actually, not just the Copts, but also many Muslims were absolutely fed up with the MB's garbage.  there is no way Egypt could have survived in the years that are formative of a constitution with these thugs in power.

 

it's pretty certain that many of the Rabaa protesters were indeed armed, about 50 police/soldiers were killed in the clashes.  that said, I saw first hand the public side of the Rabaa square that most of the journalists could see, which was ostensibly peaceful, so there were peaceful people there.  but people who were at the Tahrir protests have blamed the MB for having those women and children in harms way--pointing out that at Tahrir, whenever there was a known threat coming, they were sure to get the most vulnerable people out.  the MB protesters there were keeping those people in harms way, full well knowing what was coming.

 

and there were people being held and tortured in some of those tents according to some human rights organizations and various charges from people who survived the torture.  the Rabaa camp could not be allowed to fester.

 

but as I said, El Baradei had proposed much better plans which would not have been as much of a stirring of the hornet's nest.  I think this could have been done so much better.

 

anyway, I am confused though, is someone actually suggesting US intervention?  that would be absolutely insane at this point--all we have now is some riots and chaos that amounts to an internal matter that Egyptian security can deal with.  the Egyptian military needs to provide stability and move along the previously stated roadmap.  the Muslim Brotherhood has lost so much support, and continues to lose so much support among the Egyptian population, there's no way they would win in a fair election anymore.

 

there is no need for any kind of crusade, something which would only make things so much worse.  As I saw on a Coptic friend's twitter feed: "they think by burning churches they are taking revenge against Egypt.We happily sacrifice our churches for #Egypt".  I think most Copts would totally reject anyone calling for some kind of crusade to defend them, though they happily accept the military's protection which is absolutely necessary.

[Era Might]

I am a Christian, and so I cannot agree with your individualist viewpoint. The Church's doctrine of the Trinity is an icon of mankind's unity as persons within one nature. We are - as scripture teaches - our brother's keeper.

 

Yes, we are. But again, you seem incapable of realizing that just because you see things a certain way doesn't mean everyone does or should. Keep your brother as you see necessary, and I will do the same.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Era Might

[Apotheoun]

My prayers for you Aloysius. I pray that God keeps you safe.

[Apotheoun]

Yes, we are. But again, you seem incapable of realizing that just because you see things a certain way doesn't mean everyone does or should. Keep your brother as you see necessary, and I will do the same.

I know that you do not care about the Copts, and there is nothing I can do - beyond prayers for you - to alter your indifferentism on the matter. You think that the Copts, a small minority in Egypt, should just stand up for themselves and stop the persecution. But I doubt you have ever really faced the kind of hardships that they are facing. I know that I have not. You have my prayers.

[KnightofChrist]

Sauce plz?

The Muslim Brotherhood – Nazi Connection

...

In the 1920s, an Egyptian school teacher, Hassan al-Banna, gathered discontent Muslims to found the Muslim Brotherhood.

According to John Loftus, a former prosecutor with the US Justice Department, “Al-Banna formed this nationalist group called the Muslim Brotherhood. Al-Banna was a devout admirer of Adolf Hitler and wrote to him frequently.”

Loftus adds that Al-Banna was so persistent in his “admiration of the new Nazi Party that in the 1930s Al-Banna and the Muslim Brotherhood became a secret arm of Nazi Intelligence. With the goal of the Third Reich to develop the Muslim Brotherhood as an army inside Egypt.”

While initial growth of the Muslim Brotherhood was moderate, the organization’s membership rolls – coinciding with rising anti-Semitism in Europe — by August 1938 had swelled to more than two hundred thousand members. By the end of World War II the Muslim Brotherhood had around half a million members.

Al-Banna idealized death also preached a love of death.

Source: http://www.educationnews.org/breaking_news/106849.html#sthash.copATLJl.dpuf

 

Herf: The Nazi Arabic language radio broadcasts during World War II to the Middle East simultaneously attacked Zionism and the Jews. The absurd and false notion that an international Jewish conspiracy existed and was a major force in world politics was a key theme of Nazism’s wartime propaganda. Conspiratorial thinking focused on the supposed power of the Jews persisted after the war in the Middle East. The pejorative and hateful depictions of Jews in Nazi propaganda, the belief that they were inherently evil and that they should be punished as a result found echoes in the postwar publications of the Muslim Brotherhood, the writings of Sayyid Qutb, the postwar activities of Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Egyptian government’s propaganda under Nasser and in the Hamas Covenant of 1988.

...

Al-Masry: You claim Nazi propaganda influenced contemporary Islamic movements, how so?

Herf: The lineages are traceable from al-Husseini through Qutb, the Muslim Brotherhood and related organizations such as Hamas and Hezbollah. The Hamas Covenant of 1988 contains a host of the same absurdities about European history that one could find in Nazi propaganda of the 1940s. The blend of Jew-hatred with hatred of the United States and liberal democracy that one finds in the public statements of Al Qaeda also recall similar sentiments from the Nazi era.

Source: http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/nazi-propaganda-arab-world

 

1939-1954
Main article: History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (1939-1954)

Links to the Nazis began during the 1930s and were close during the Second World War, involving agitation against the British, espionage and sabotage, as well as support for terrorist activities orchestrated by Haj Amin el-Hussaini in British Mandate Palestine, as a wide range of declassified documents from the British, American and Nazi German governmental archives, as well as from personal accounts and memoires from that period, confirm.[6] Reflecting this connection the Muslim Brotherhood also disseminated Hitler's Mein Kampf and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion widely in Arab translations, helping to deepen and extend already existing hostile views about Jews and Western societies generally.[7]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Muslim_Brotherhood_in_Egypt

[Era Might]

I know that you do not care about the Copts, and there is nothing I can do

 

Of course you know that. You are God, after all. Too bad you're a weak god and can't do anything about it.

[Apotheoun]

Of course you know that. You are God, after all. Too bad you're a weak god and can't do anything about it.

I am sorry, but I am simply reading your indifferentist comments, and your attempts to upbraid the Copts for not doing more for themselves. I am sorry that my comments have hurt your feelings, but no one is threatening you with violence as is presently the case with the Copts. No one is burning down your home or Church. Sorry that I hurt your feelings.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Era Might]

I am sorry, but I am simply reading your indifferentist comments, and your attempts to upbraid the Copts for not doing more for themselves. I am sorry that my comments have hurt your feelings, but no one is threatening you with violence as is presently the case with the Copts. No one is burning down your home or Church. Sorry that I hurt your feelings.

 

Well I will await your appeals for charity from Christians around the world for your assault on my feelings.

[Aloysius]

how is any of this bickering helpful?  O.o