Living With Non Catholics

[Lil Red]

Sigh. You are missing my point. And I can't explain better because I have errands to run with my kids. So it will have to wait.

[MarysLittleFlower]

You're making a lot of assumptions before you've even found a place. Chilllllllll. :like:

 

lol I know :) it's based on something though... of course, it could be that nothing would happen!

Sigh. You are missing my point. And I can't explain better because I have errands to run with my kids. So it will have to wait.

Okay... it seems to me like you're saying, that because i'd feel uncomfortable with fornication happening under the same roof, I would judge and lecture people for whatever sins they commit. If you have a reason for thinking so and a real criticism of my conduct on this forum, then please let me know. I'm not sure because I haven't mentioned anything else on this thread. I tried to clarify my position. If you still feel this way, after my clarification, then please let me know why, so that if there's something I'm missing about myself, I would know.  :)

 

I try to focus on my spiritual life. If others are sinning, I don't think it's judging to realize the action is sin (as in objectively going against God's law), but that doesn't mean I would lecture them or condemn them. In fact too often, I say nothing when I should, because I'm too afraid. If the action is such that it affects my spiritual life - then I don't really know what to do, I guess that's something to ask a priest, but the thread is along these lines.

Edited August 7, 2013 by MarysLittleFlower

[franciscanheart]

lol I know :) it's based on something though... of course, it could be that nothing would happen!

My point exactly. And even if a gentleman did end up in their room, you don't have to assume they are having sex. :like:

[MarysLittleFlower]

Of course, that too! like if it's a brother or a cousin staying over.

[Basilisa Marie]

Let me ask you a question Lil Red, did I mention skipping Mass? or anything else? I only talked about fornication in this thread. So I am really unsure, where you are getting this from, since I didn't even mention it.

 

If someone was doing something sinful like - let's use your example of skipping Mass, - I don't think it would be charitable for me to just "not care", I'd care but I'd just pray for them, maybe get to know them better, if they're open, I can tell them simply what I love about the Mass. If they were doing something that *includes me* being part of it, like if they always took God's Name in vain, I would like to let them know that this makes me uncomfortable. I actually haven't done this yet with people I know, but I think that's because I was too much of a coward. If I have a friend who isn't living chastely, I'd just pray for her and try to be a good example, to lead her closer to God. If she's ever open to it, I'd talk to her about God, but I'd ask Him to prepare her and pray first. However if this is happening within my house - I think that's kind of different. Firstly there's a random guy in the house at night, - it's really awkward especially seeing him around in the hallway, etc. There's a reason, after all, why I'd choose to live with other females. Secondly, it might not all be so 'private', to put it gently. Thirdly, don't know if you would believe me but this sort of thing can affect the spiritual reality within the house, potentially. I think we should be sensitive to sin. It doesn't mean lecturing people loudly. I actually don't lecture my non Catholic friends. Often I'm actually too passive and afraid. But I wouldn't like it if something like this happened in my house, that's why I'd prefer living with people who aren't bringing guys over at night, even if we disagree on stuff. Ideally, I'd prefer living with practicing Catholics, but I don't know if that's possible.

 

I think maybe what Red means is that just the very idea of confronting someone about their sinful behavior is judgmental, and makes others worry about other ways in which they might be falling short in your eyes.  Praying for people is good, and letting people know up front if something makes you uncomfortable is good (especially with new roommates, it's good to get everything out at the beginning).  But honestly, I don't think most people are receptive to people telling them what they're doing is wrong, that's something that only very close friends or family members can really do without it majorly backfiring.  

From the rest of what you've said here, I think you might be happier living with Catholic people, or at least people who share your values.  If you think living with people who don't share your values is going to be a problem for you, I'd definitely recommend living alone or finding a way to live with people who do share your values.  Speaking as a former RA, there are so many ways in which roommate relationships break down, and you need to make sure you're setting yourself up for success in every way possible.   

Honestly, I don't think it's appropriate for you to tell your roommates what you think they're doing is sinful.  The only exceptions are if they're already your good friend, or if they've told you that they're trying to be good Catholics and you can see that their faith is a large part of their life (i.e. walking the talk).  Charity isn't always telling people what they're doing is wrong.  Charity is doing what's going to do the most good for that person.  Most of the time, telling anyone that what they're doing is sinful is going to do more harm than good, again unless you're a close friend or you're their spiritual director or something.   Instead, just tell them at the beginning what you're comfortable with.  But seriously, if you feel much more comfortable living with people who share your values, DO THAT.  Who you live with has such a big impact on your general well being (like you allude to in your post), that I think for you, it might be better to just avoid the conflict situation all together, if possible.  Is there anyone from a local church with a room to rent? 

[franciscanheart]

Of course, that too! like if it's a brother or a cousin staying over.

Or a guy friend or a boyfriend. It may not be the best move spiritually to have a man sharing your space overnight when you are not yet married, but it does happen without sex, I promise. :like:

[MarysLittleFlower]

I think maybe what Red means is that just the very idea of confronting someone about their sinful behavior is judgmental, and makes others worry about other ways in which they might be falling short in your eyes.  Praying for people is good, and letting people know up front if something makes you uncomfortable is good (especially with new roommates, it's good to get everything out at the beginning).  But honestly, I don't think most people are receptive to people telling them what they're doing is wrong, that's something that only very close friends or family members can really do without it majorly backfiring.  

From the rest of what you've said here, I think you might be happier living with Catholic people, or at least people who share your values.  If you think living with people who don't share your values is going to be a problem for you, I'd definitely recommend living alone or finding a way to live with people who do share your values.  Speaking as a former RA, there are so many ways in which roommate relationships break down, and you need to make sure you're setting yourself up for success in every way possible.   

Honestly, I don't think it's appropriate for you to tell your roommates what you think they're doing is sinful.  The only exceptions are if they're already your good friend, or if they've told you that they're trying to be good Catholics and you can see that their faith is a large part of their life (i.e. walking the talk).  Charity isn't always telling people what they're doing is wrong.  Charity is doing what's going to do the most good for that person.  Most of the time, telling anyone that what they're doing is sinful is going to do more harm than good, again unless you're a close friend or you're their spiritual director or something.   Instead, just tell them at the beginning what you're comfortable with.  But seriously, if you feel much more comfortable living with people who share your values, DO THAT.  Who you live with has such a big impact on your general well being (like you allude to in your post), that I think for you, it might be better to just avoid the conflict situation all together, if possible.  Is there anyone from a local church with a room to rent? 

 

Thanks for clarifying :)

Maybe my post wasn't very clear. If someone is doing something sinful, I usually just pray for them. I think there are cases when a person can let them know, and it not be judgemental, if done charitably - some obvious examples are if a priest does this, spiritual direction, a parent instructing a child, or talking gently to a very close friend. Or other cases that I haven't thought of where this would work. When I wrote my post, I didn't have in mind telling them in these words: "what you're doing is a sin" - because if they don't believe in Christianity, they're probably not care if I think it's a sin or not, and if said in the wrong way it can push someone away. For example, if you talk about them going to hell, or if they don't know anything about you and you're talking to them about this. However - what I was asking about, is whether it would be appropriate to simply say that I don't feel comfortable with guys staying over at night, - they're probably have questions though if I mean for my own personal safety, or morals, or whatever. I'm not saying I *would* tell them, I was rather asking if this would be a good idea, or not. My main question was: would I be sinning by living in such a situation, and again I asked because I don't really know.

 

Anyways, hope that clarifies the thread a little :) the reason I asked if I should say something to them, is because sometimes I make mistakes in the opposite direction, though with people I know really well, I've made mistakes being too "forward" too. It's hard to know exactly what to do, and when, etc.

[Winchester]

My point exactly. And even if a gentleman did end up in their room, you don't have to assume they are having sex. :like:

But what if a cad ends up there?

[cmaD2006]

Thanks for the replies.. I understand I can't control what people are doing. However, am I sinning by accepting living in such a household? I just don't know what to think on this...

 

The only way I can think that you *could* be sinning is if whatever the other person is doing can be a near occasion to sin?

 

Example -- if you are tempted to have relationships outside of marriage then having a roommate who does this can cause you to fall.  Or, potentially having a male roommate (even in another room) if you are weak in this area.

 

Otherwise I agree with what has been said ... you can only control yourself, not others.

[Lil Red]

Basically everything Basilisa said. Nothing to add.

I think maybe what Red means is that just the very idea of confronting someone about their sinful behavior is judgmental, and makes others worry about other ways in which they might be falling short in your eyes. Praying for people is good, and letting people know up front if something makes you uncomfortable is good (especially with new roommates, it's good to get everything out at the beginning). But honestly, I don't think most people are receptive to people telling them what they're doing is wrong, that's something that only very close friends or family members can really do without it majorly backfiring.

From the rest of what you've said here, I think you might be happier living with Catholic people, or at least people who share your values. If you think living with people who don't share your values is going to be a problem for you, I'd definitely recommend living alone or finding a way to live with people who do share your values. Speaking as a former RA, there are so many ways in which roommate relationships break down, and you need to make sure you're setting yourself up for success in every way possible.

Honestly, I don't think it's appropriate for you to tell your roommates what you think they're doing is sinful. The only exceptions are if they're already your good friend, or if they've told you that they're trying to be good Catholics and you can see that their faith is a large part of their life (i.e. walking the talk). Charity isn't always telling people what they're doing is wrong. Charity is doing what's going to do the most good for that person. Most of the time, telling anyone that what they're doing is sinful is going to do more harm than good, again unless you're a close friend or you're their spiritual director or something. Instead, just tell them at the beginning what you're comfortable with. But seriously, if you feel much more comfortable living with people who share your values, DO THAT. Who you live with has such a big impact on your general well being (like you allude to in your post), that I think for you, it might be better to just avoid the conflict situation all together, if possible. Is there anyone from a local church with a room to rent?

[MarysLittleFlower]

The only way I can think that you *could* be sinning is if whatever the other person is doing can be a near occasion to sin?

 

Example -- if you are tempted to have relationships outside of marriage then having a roommate who does this can cause you to fall.  Or, potentially having a male roommate (even in another room) if you are weak in this area.

 

Otherwise I agree with what has been said ... you can only control yourself, not others.

 

I agree with this... if it's an occasion of sin, then the person should definitely avoid it.

Edited August 7, 2013 by MarysLittleFlower

[MarysLittleFlower]

Basically everything Basilisa said. Nothing to add.
 

Okay :) I replied to Basilisa above.

[MithLuin]

No, it is not a sin to live under the same roof as someone who is engaging in sinful activity.  I mean, you don't want to take Cain's approach - 'Am I my brother's keeper?' that allows you to dismiss other people as beneath your concern.  But lecturing someone who is your peer seldom goes well.  It's the type of thing to discuss and be honest about if it comes up.

 

Now, as for living with someone.....

 

The person who owns the house sets the rules, and the renters abide by them.  If the landlord has a rule against overnight guests (or about guests staying over more than a certain number of times in a month) and someone in the house is not abiding by this agreement, it would be fair to bring up this issue with the tenant and then discuss it with the landlord if they do not change.  

 

There are concerns beyond moral concerns.  I once lived with a friend (her place; I was renting) who asked that one of the ground rules be no random guys staying over at night.  I was fine with that rule, but apparently she'd rented the room to someone in the past who would go out to bars and bring random guys home.  My friend wasn't judging the morality of such behavior, but she did have concerns about safety - how did she know this girl wasn't going to bring home a psycho who would rob them blind or threaten violence or something?  She wasn't comfortable having a random unknown stranger in the house overnight, and I felt it was her prerogative to set such a rule.  And as I said, she brought up this issue with me before I moved in, so there was no misunderstanding later.

 

If you are not the landlord or the owner, you don't get to make the rules of the house.  You can, however, have a discussion with your new roommates after everyone has moved in about making common decisions and ground rules.  Not just about overnight guests, but about cooking and cleaning chores and use of public space - how long is it okay to leave your stuff in the laundry room?  Can you leave your work papers strewn out on the coffee table in the living room for days on end?  Do you need to put your name on food you put in the fridge, or is it understood that you only touch your own stuff?  Etc.  Such discussions are generally essential for sharing the space.  If you are not comfortable with having guys stay overnight, you could voice that concern at such a meeting.  You don't have to give the reason ('I don't think unmarried people should be having sex'), but just mention that this makes you uncomfortable.  They're going to respond however they are going to respond, but there's not really much you can do to discourage them from inviting a boyfriend over to spend the night if they so choose.  

[tinytherese]

I once had a situation in college where I lived in a suite with 3 other girls. One of them brought a guy who was a friend of her's (not her boyfriend,) unannounced into the suite. It wasn't that I didn't like him coming over, I just felt uncomfortable that I didn't know when he was coming and he was known to stay for hours. The two of them would sit in the living area and watch movies and sometimes eat.

 

If I was about to take a shower in our suite and she randomly showed up with her guy friend, I felt uncomfortable. I didn't know if he would be uncomfortable seeing me in a bathrobe or not and I was somewhat uncomfortable about being seen by a guy who I wasn't related to in a bathrobe. (Thankfully it wasn't a short bathrobe where most of my bare legs would be seen, but even it was a reasonable length, one or both of us could still feel awkward.)

 

Looking back, I should have sat down and talked to her about this, but instead just kept quiet and was resentful about it. She might have had no idea that I felt uncomfortable. Maybe we could've just had a system where she would call my cellphone to let me know when she'd be bringing him in case I was just about to shower and if I was, then he could come up later.

 

The other girls would usually be showering in the morning before classes and I my schedule didn't give me much time to shower until 3 pm. About that time, she'd bring in her guy friend and he wouldn't leave until midnight or later.

 

 

[penguin31]

I've read all three pages of this thread now, and I can't help but wondering if you're fishing for a certain response.  You keep trying to re-frame and re-position your question, from the looks of it trying to get folks here to say "No. Living with this person would be sinful so don't do it or otherwise force them to stop", looking for that validation. It sounds like you know what you *want* to do  You've asked the question in several different ways now, and you keep getting the same response. This roommate has the right to live their life as they choose, however much you occasionally disagree with their choices. If you choose to preach at them, then that's your choice. If you choose not to live there, that's your choice.  Your roommate is accountable for their choice, and you're accountable for yours. 

If you don't want to live with her, then don't. No one's forcing you, and you don't need us to validate your decision either way. It's generally not a sin for the reasons outlined in the past three pages, but if it makes you uncomfortable then do something. Going with hard-sell proselytizing typically backfires and leaves them irritated and yourself no better off. Moving elsewhere inconveniences you in the short term but pays off long term.  Leaving it be and allowing them to live their own life (while subtly offering your own life as an example of Christian love) has potential long-term ministry benefits, likely at least causes them to think about their actions, and can do wonders.