Inefficacy Of The Sacraments

[Socrates]

Good question. The Eucharist can stir some sort of supernatural effect, but it's pretty rare. You're expecting Jesus to operate like a tyrant, commanding that his Presence by felt by all who receive Him, or even dare to look upon Him. That's not in the nature of Jesus, who was born, lived, and died in relative obscurity. In the Gospels, many people talked with Jesus face-to-face and turned away. Many could not receive miracles because their hearts were hardened. Jesus selected twelve disciples, and even one of those was a traitor. So if the supernatural effect you expect did not occur in His ministry 2,000 years ago, why do you expect it today?

 

Actually, the Eucharist always stirs a supernatural effect, as the Sacrament is itself a supernatural occurrence, and God's sanctifying grace given in the Sacraments is by definition supernatural (God acting outside of nature).

 

(I know what you mean though, and sorry for being nerdy, but I think it's important to use the correct language in theology.  What is supernatural often is not visible to the senses.)

 

I think there is a good reason Jesus chose to remain completely hidden and invisible to the senses in the Blessed Sacrament.  Christ did work visible miracles, but chose not to do so when instituting the Eucharist.

 

The Eucharist has always been a "hard teaching" which led even some of his own followers to abandon him (see John 6).

 

Even on earth, Christ refused to work visible miracles for those putting Him to a test and seeking "signs and wonders."  I think He intended the Eucharist for those already devoted to Him and His teachings, rather than to be sought by those seeking thrills or signs and wonders.

[Apotheoun]

. . .

 

I think there is a good reason Jesus chose to remain completely hidden and invisible to the senses in the Blessed Sacrament.  Christ did work visible miracles, but chose not to do so when instituting the Eucharist.

 

. . .

The following is a quotation from one of Pope St. Leo's sermons:

 

For such is the power of great minds, such the light of truly believing souls, that they put unhesitating faith in what is not seen with the bodily eye; they fix their desires on what is beyond sight. Such fidelity could never be born in our hearts, nor could anyone be justified by faith, if our salvation lay only in what was visible. And so our Redeemer's visible presence has passed into the sacraments. Our faith is nobler and stronger because sight has been replaced by a doctrine whose authority is accepted by believing hearts, enlightened from on high. This faith was increased by the Lord's ascension and strengthened by the gift of the Spirit; it would remain unshaken by fetters and imprisonment, exile and hunger, fire and ravening beasts, and the most refined tortures ever devised by brutal persecutors. Throughout the world women no less than men, tender girls as well as boys, have given their life's blood in the struggle for this faith. It is a faith that has driven out devils, healed the sick and raised the dead.

 

+ Pope St. Leo the Great 

[Apteka]

If the sacraments had real power would not all Christians be on their way to spiritual advancement?

[Apotheoun]

If the sacraments had real power would not all Christians be on their way to spiritual advancement?

No, because the sacraments are not magical acts that overpower a person's free will.

According to the Holy Fathers the mysteries objectively contain grace (i.e., they manifest what they signify), but whether or not a person benefits from the grace that is present depends upon his own personal subjective preparation for reception of the sacrament.

[Apteka]

No, because the sacraments are not magical acts that overpower a person's free will.

According to the Holy Fathers the mysteries objectively contain grace (i.e., they manifest what they signify), but whether or not a person benefits from the grace that is present depends upon his own personal subjective preparation for reception of the sacrament.

 

What is grace and what does it do? How does it manifest physically?

[Apotheoun]

What is grace and what does it do? How does it manifest physically?

Grace is God, i.e., it is God's energy. Grace is an uncreated spiritual reality beyond the physical realm of being. Man can - by his free will - cooperate with God's uncreated grace, and in so doing he (i.e., man) becomes uncreated by it, while remaining a creature in his own nature. This is what the Eastern Church Fathers called "theosis."

Edited August 15, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Apteka]

Grace is God, i.e., it is God's energy. Grace is an uncreated spiritual reality beyond the physical realm of being. Man can - by his free will - cooperate with God's uncreated grace, and in so doing he (i.e., man) becomes uncreated by it, while remaining a creature in his own nature. This is what the Eastern Church Fathers called "theosis."

 

This sounds like a complicated and superfluous theory, it involves more of a psychological belief in a change occurring than an actual change being demonstrated. In what way, for example, are you different in the state of theosis? The baptized Catholics who receive communion are no different than those not attending church, so where is the evidence for this great miracle of Divine energy being infused into us?

[Apotheoun]

This sounds like a complicated and superfluous theory, it involves more of a psychological belief in a change occurring than an actual change being demonstrated. In what way, for example, are you different in the state of theosis? The baptized Catholics who receive communion are no different than those not attending church, so where is the evidence for this great miracle of Divine energy being infused into us?

It's not all that complicated. To summarize: the holy mysteries contain the grace of God (i.e., God's life as it can be experienced by man), but the person receiving the mystery must be subjectively prepared to receive it, and the grace will impact a man's life to the degree that he is prepared. To put it another way, the holy mysteries are not magic, and so they do not overpower the will of the recipient.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Apteka]

It's not all that complicated. To summarize: the holy mysteries contain the grace of God (i.e., God's life as it can be experienced by man), but the person receiving the mystery must be subjectively prepared to receive it, and the grace will impact a man's life to the degree that he is prepared. To put it another way, the holy mysteries are not magic, and so they do not overpower the will of the recipient.

 

You are claiming that Divine energies are available for man's partaking, and yet many approach worthily and experience nothing. If God was being experienced here, one would know it.

[Apotheoun]

You are claiming that Divine energies are available for man's partaking, and yet many approach worthily and experience nothing. If God was being experienced here, one would know it.

First of all, I have no way of knowing anything about anyone else's worthiness or their subjective experience. I can only speak about my own experience, and I have experienced great spiritual effects from the sacraments. But the experience of God in the liturgy is not - as an Eastern saint once said, a matter of philosophy, or theory, or ideology, nor is it an emotion; instead, it is a spiritual experience of God that transcends all of those created things, and which lifts man beyond himself. Does everyone experience this? Probably not. But can everyone experience this wonder? Yes, if they are open to it.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Apotheoun