Why Are Atheists So Obsessed With Christians?

[KnightofChrist]

Atheist - Lacks a belief in any god
Agnostic - Holds that there is no knowledge of gods.
 

 

Atheist: Holds the belief there is likely no God, or there is no God.

Agnostic: Holds the belief that there is no way to know if there is or is not a God.

 

Atheists who have heard of the idea of God's existence don't just "lack" a belief in God, they choose to form an opinion, a belief, that there is likely no God, or there is no God. An atheist that has never heard of the idea of God lacks a belief in God. An atheist that has heard of God and chosen to form the belief that He doesn't exist, likely or absolutely do not simply lack a belief.

[Ice_nine]

atheists worship the almighty Athe.

 

Ignoramuses

[Winchester]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmGkfWDtv78[/media]

[MarysLittleFlower]

I've wondered about this too.

 

I think there are different reasons why atheists might talk about Christianity. Some might be:

- exploring it and asking questions

- wanting to 'disprove' our reasons to believe in God

 

I'm a convert, and I remember being rather anti-Catholic before, and then asking questions.

 

I think that deep down, we're all seeking the truth. Since I believe that God is this Truth, it makes sense to me that someone who doesn't believe in Him, would still think about Him or ask questions or even get angry, because deep inside they're trying to resolve or deal with or validate their unbelief. Maybe people might get angry because somewhere really deep they aren't sure? Because I find that Christians who have a very strong faith, don't get angry if someone doesn't believe in God, they just try to pray for them or talk to them calmly. Other times, people might be upset about Christianity because of a misunderstanding. For example I used to think Catholics worshipped Mary, and I thought Catholics don't truly know God, so I wanted them to become evangelical Protestant. Then, I learned that actually I was incorrect. Sometimes people might have been hurt by Christians too, which is unfortunate.

 

For the atheists here, I do have a question... if it's important to you that Christians or other lose their belief in God, why is that? I mean, the reason we'd like others to find God is so that they'd know they're loved by Him, and have the happiness of knowing Him. It's not to prove that "we're right" - I would believe in God even if others do not, because He's a Person that I know, not just a theory. But if you don't believe in God, why does it bother you (if it does) that others believe in Him? After all, I'd say that we're all happy here, to believe in God. We're just living our lives, going to Mass, working, etc. There are some atheists who seem so upset that anyone would believe in God and they talk about our intelligence, etc, but many of the brightest minds in history have also belonged to theists. Many of us might have undergraduate or graduate degrees. I guess what i'm saying is - why do you feel it would help someone to lose their faith in God? of course, I'd say that it wouldn't help them. But if you think it would, why? especially if they're trying to actually follow Jesus' teachings and love God and their neighbour: they're not hurting anyone falsely as if in the name of their religion (if they were to hurt someone, that would be going against Christianity, anyway).

 

Maybe you want everyone to believe something that you think is objective truth. You don't believe in God, so do you think theists are misguided and deceived, and you want to persuade them to give up their faith?

Edited August 7, 2013 by MarysLittleFlower

[stevil]

Atheist: Holds the belief there is likely no God, or there is no God.

Agnostic: Holds the belief that there is no way to know if there is or is not a God.

 

Atheists who have heard of the idea of God's existence don't just "lack" a belief in God, they choose to form an opinion, a belief, that there is likely no God, or there is no God. An atheist that has never heard of the idea of God lacks a belief in God. An atheist that has heard of God and chosen to form the belief that He doesn't exist, likely or absolutely do not simply lack a belief.

 

You can construct strawmen like this all you want but it doesn't change the actual position of an atheist.

Unless you want to invoke the special pleading logical fallicy then you must realise the atheist position towards god/s is the same as our position towards unicorns, big foot, lochness etc

Yeah, sure we have heard some people say that they believe in such things, most of us realise that we cannot disprove any of these things, most of us have seen no evidence to suggest there is any truth in the existence of such things thus we remain unconvinced.

We don't then go about making it our life's goal to find a unicorn, or a big foot or lochness monster or a god. Instead we go about our lives as usual. If some new information comes to light then some of us are interested enough to read it and assess it.

But lack of belief is very different to belief. The vast majority of atheists don't hold onto a belief that there are no gods. Mostly we don't like the idea of believing in something that there is no evidence for.
 

[KnightofChrist]

You can construct strawmen like this all you want but it doesn't change the actual position of an atheist.

No strawmen have been constructed.
 

Unless you want to invoke the special pleading logical fallicy then you must realise the atheist position towards god/s is the same as our position towards unicorns, big foot, lochness etc

Yeah, sure we have heard some people say that they believe in such things, most of us realise that we cannot disprove any of these things, most of us have seen no evidence to suggest there is any truth in the existence of such things thus we remain unconvinced.

We don't then go about making it our life's goal to find a unicorn, or a big foot or lochness monster or a god. Instead we go about our lives as usual. If some new information comes to light then some of us are interested enough to read it and assess it.

Again, if someone had never heard of unicorns, big foot, etc they would indeed lack a belief for or against those things. But if they had then they would have to form a thought, an opinion, a belief to believe that either they did exist, probably did not exist, absolutely did not exist, or there is no way to know if they exist.
 

But lack of belief is very different to belief. The vast majority of atheists don't hold onto a belief that there are no gods. Mostly we don't like the idea of believing in something that there is no evidence for.

Belief in something is very different than belief against something, but belief can be correctly applied to both means of thinking. An opinion is a belief, if one believes there is likely no God because there is no evidence to support His existence, that is a position, that is a thought, that is an opinion, that is a belief. Edited August 7, 2013 by KnightofChrist

[stevil]

I've wondered about this too.

 

I think there are different reasons why atheists might talk about Christianity. Some might be:

- exploring it and asking questions

- wanting to 'disprove' our reasons to believe in God

 

I'm a convert, and I remember being rather anti-Catholic before, and then asking questions.

I think a lot of atheists see religious groups as a threat.

When we see religious groups want laws against abortion or against gay marriage or want to outlaw contraceptives or redefine science so that unvarified supernatural beliefs can be taught as science, when religious groups seek to stop gay people from adopting children or from having teachers jobs, then us atheists pay an interest in the religious.

 

We obviously want a society where we can life free from religious influence, where we can make our life choices and not be locked up or driven underground. We want discrimination to stop. So we start paying attention to the religious folk, we try to get to know them, learn how they think so that we can hopefully come to some sort of compromise, if this is not possible then we seek to oppose them, maybe by discrediting their religious beliefs in the hope that society becomes more secular, more accepting and less judgemental.

We live very much in a diverse society these days with people from different cultures, beliefs, sexual orientations. An inclusive society is necessary for harmony, any threats to that must be dealt with.
 

[KnightofChrist]

I think a lot of atheists see religious groups as a threat.
When we see religious groups want laws against abortion...

So you come here to save the world from people who want to save babies lives?

[stevil]

Again, if someone had never heard of unicorns, big foot, etc they would indeed lack a belief for or against those things. But if they had then they would have to form a thought, an opinion, a belief to believe that either they did exist, probably did not exist, absolutely did not exist, or there is no way to know if they exist.

An opinion could be an open one rather than a closed one.

An open opinion could be that the idea (of unicorns, of god) seems somewhat interesting, but could be put on the back burner in lieu of there being no evidence.

This is different to having a belief that this thing doesn't exist.

 

[KnightofChrist]

An opinion could be an open one rather than a closed one.
An open opinion could be that the idea (of unicorns, of god) seems somewhat interesting, but could be put on the back burner in lieu of there being no evidence.
This is different to having a belief that this thing doesn't exist.

Well maybe in the special Atheist dictionary, but in the real world an opinion can be a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. And to believe or have a belief can mean to hold an opinion.

Edited August 7, 2013 by KnightofChrist

[stevil]

Well maybe in the special Atheist dictionary, but in the real world an opinion can be a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. And to believe or have a belief can mean to hold an opinion.

 

There is a difference between a belief and an opinion.

If a person says "I believe in god" this is different to a person saying "I have an opinion on god's existence"

 

I certainly think it would be preferable for a person to say "in my opinion god probably exists" rather than a person saying "I believe in god" because if they realise it is merely an opinion then hopefully they won't be so driven to force others to follow their own opinion based beliefs.
 

[stevil]

So you come here to save the world from people who want to save babies lives?

 

In my own little way I would like to oppose Catholics and their drive to force people to keep unborn babies alive.

I would never support a government forcing a mother to keep her fetus, primarily because it is not my business and hence it is not the government's business.

I do understand why Catholics are passionate about this issue though, and I respect that.
 

[KnightofChrist]

There is a difference between a belief and an opinion.

If a person says "I believe in god" this is different to a person saying "I have an opinion on god's existence"

 

I certainly think it would be preferable for a person to say "in my opinion god probably exists" rather than a person saying "I believe in god" because if they realise it is merely an opinion then hopefully they won't be so driven to force others to follow their own opinion based beliefs.
 

 

I know you have the belief that belief and opinion are different.

[MarysLittleFlower]

I think a lot of atheists see religious groups as a threat.

When we see religious groups want laws against abortion or against gay marriage or want to outlaw contraceptives or redefine science so that unvarified supernatural beliefs can be taught as science, when religious groups seek to stop gay people from adopting children or from having teachers jobs, then us atheists pay an interest in the religious.

 

We obviously want a society where we can life free from religious influence, where we can make our life choices and not be locked up or driven underground. We want discrimination to stop. So we start paying attention to the religious folk, we try to get to know them, learn how they think so that we can hopefully come to some sort of compromise, if this is not possible then we seek to oppose them, maybe by discrediting their religious beliefs in the hope that society becomes more secular, more accepting and less judgemental.

We live very much in a diverse society these days with people from different cultures, beliefs, sexual orientations. An inclusive society is necessary for harmony, any threats to that must be dealt with.
 

Thanks for the response. Regarding some of what you said - pro life issue or pro marriage arguments are not only held by Christians, they also appeal to natural law. (natural law and reason don't contradict public revelation, though our faith comes from public revelation and is a gift from God). Contraceptives have health problems with them too. I remember there was a time when Pope Benedict talked against condoms in Africa, and was attacked. However, then a professor from Harvard, who is not Catholic I think, did some research and agreed with Pope Benedict: he said that the countries in Africa with the lowest numbers of people with AIDS, etc, are those that promote abstinence and have a strong moral and religious view. He talked about condoms giving people a false sense of security. I think sometimes people react to Church teachings because of our culture has taught us, and because of biases our culture has instilled into us. I've found that a lot of what the media says like that, is rhetoric. Call something "tolerance" or "freedom", and people immediately begin associating the ideas with it.

 

As Catholics, of course, we don't believe that the state has the ultimate say of what moral truth is. That's why we are supporting certain laws and not supporting others. It's not about "controlling" people, it's about making it easier for them to follow what we see as being the ultimate truth: for example if abortion is legalized, it's been proven that more get abortions. I also think there needs to be help given to pregnant women who might not be able to support the baby, etc, - so they don't feel pressured into back-alley abortions. Personally, I'm pro life because of my faith, but also I see it supported by science and evidence, and it all comes together with me, in fact as a Catholic, faith and reason aren't opposed.. if I see something in science or history that supports my faith, i'm not really surprised.

 

I'm not sure what you mean about redefining science though. When the Vatican asks scientists to examine various miracles, the scientists are very scrupulous with it all and don't look for a specific answer, that's why canonization is such a big process, so much research goes into it, to rule out any other possible case. Every other possible explanation is looked for until it's just not supportable by the evidence. To me, this is much more reliable than people explaining absolutely everything about us (like love, psychology, etc) with evolution, when actually we can't even prove that such things are genetic or evolved. My undergrad is in science so I studied it from their own perspective.

 

You mentioned a secular society being less judgemental. But there's a difference between judging people and ideas. I can love a homosexual person while disagreeing with them. Do you have family members that you disagree with on stuff? :) you still love them as people, right? I know secular people would say - how can you love them and deny them the "right to get married" - but we don't think it's loving to help someone sin. I know then you'll disagree that it's a sin. And so we go around in circles. I'd invite you to read this article that deals with natural law and it could help to understand what we're getting at.. it's by a philosophy professor: http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/11_moral-theology/square_three-sides.htm

 

Ultimately, freedom is about being free to make the right choices. If a person jumps off a bridge, sure they chose this freely, and God did give us a free will... and they did something to harm themselves. We have a free will so we can love, not so that we can harm ourselves, and I know atheists usually don't believe in a soul, but by considering that Catholics do believe this, you can see why we'd want to protect the soul :)

Edited August 7, 2013 by MarysLittleFlower

[Winchester]

In my own little way I would like to oppose Catholics and their drive to force people to keep unborn babies alive.

I would never support a government forcing a mother to keep her fetus, primarily because it is not my business and hence it is not the government's business.

I do understand why Catholics are passionate about this issue though, and I respect that.
 

Do you believe child neglect should be a crime?