Stoning In The Bible, A Muslim Response And The Christian Approach

[dairygirl4u2c]

stoning is and always has been wrong: Christians should just forsake their supposed religion's history of stoning

 

 

 

 

 

 

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below is a muslim who tries to argue that Christians should not tear down their religion, due to things like stoning, because that stuff is so based in Christianity. he points out how Christians usually try to get around the stoning issue, but notes that even if it doesn't apply to them, it did at one day if you take the religion's teachings to the core, so it can't be said to be inherently barbaric or wrong. he says they have an issue with stoning itself, if they were honest with themselves.
my guess is that that muslim, given his emotional investment, decided to continue thinking stoning is okay. his emotional response shows he probably has an issue with it too, but decides to compare notes and rationalize his beliefs, despite how obviously barbaric they are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

it seems ironic he took the route of justifying his complicitness with stoning in his culture. he was able to do this by comparing himself to chrisnitanity. he as a follow up asks for where stoning was every over turned explicitly, but doesn't note that Jesus said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". to me it seems that God never was for stoning. if the bible says that he was, as it does, and as he points out, then the bible is wrong. i'd argue it was jesus himself who said it was wrong, and who essentially points out the bible is wrong too.
one could try to argue as colassians says, that the requirements of the law have been done away with having "nailed them to the cross". and from this, that things like stoning are no longer required. i'd argue though, that from what Jesus said, and what we can gather about a loving God, stoning is wrong.

Stoning in the Bible

Sami Zaatari

 

One can often find Christians attacking Islam due to the issue of stoning, they claim that this proves that Islamic law is barbaric, and is backward! For instance Christian apologist David Wood has released a new blog thread on his answeringmuslims.com site concerning a stoning that took place in Somalia:

http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2009/12/sharia-in-somalia-muslims-stone-man-to.html

David Wood posts the story as a bad thing; and it obviously works since the comments from his Christian fans show that they obviously disliked what happened, and this can be seen from many other Christian apologists and their supporters.

All of this brings me to the main point, what in the world are these Christians talking about? Have Christians failed to read their Bible? If one were to read the Bible, then one would know that the stoning that took place in Somalia is 100% Biblical!! So it makes you wonder, are these Christians hypocrites? Or are they simply ignorant?

In fact, the Bible doesn't just call for stoning on adultery, but calls for stoning on a whole range of issues! Here are the Biblical passages on stoning:

anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death. (Leviticus 24:16)

If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death?the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 22:23-24)

 If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars of the sky, and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5)

 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)

 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid. (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)

 'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.' (Leviticus 20:27)

 While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses. (Numbers 15:32-36)

But seat two scoundrels opposite him and have them testify that he has cursed both God and the king. Then take him out and stone him to death." (1 Kings 21:10)

The Bible even calls for the stoning of animals!

 "If a bull gores a man or a woman to death, the bull must be stoned to death, and its meat must not be eaten. But the owner of the bull will not be held responsible. (Exodus 21:28)

So as one can see, the Bible is filled with verses that call for stoning, hence my question to Christians such as David wood is, from what basis do you attack Islamic law on stoning? It certainly isn't a Biblical basis! Rather it seems Christians like David Wood are arguing from a LIBERAL foundation!

You just have to laugh at the irony, many Christians like Wood often attack Liberals, yet when it suits Christians, they will start to act like Liberals just so they can attack Islam, because I repeat, there is no Biblical basis to attack Islam on stoning, it's purely from a liberal world view.

Now Christians may give us the same usual response, that the verses on stoning come from the Jewish Bible, so it doesn't apply for them. Okay, that's fair enough, but the question remains, why do you attack Islam for supposedly being barbaric because it calls for stoning? Stoning laws may not apply to modern day Christians, but they're still in the Bible, and stoning laws from the Bible did apply in one point in history! So if stoning laws are barbaric and backwards, then the same should apply to the Bible, the Bible was backward and barbaric for establishing stoning laws in one point in history!

Furthermore Christians have a problem with the issue of stoning, the reason they oppose it is not because stoning doesn't apply to them anymore, and rather Christians have a major issue with the stoning itself. They see it as savagery, barbarism, and something terrible. So if Christians want to be consistent, then they should also condemn their Bible for having stoning laws, because I repeat, Christians have a problem with the stoning itself, their problem isn't because stoning laws was for the Jews only! If Christians are honest enough they will even admit it, that they're main problem is with the stoning itself, not that the time of stoning is no more.

So Christians just prove their double standards, they will savagely attack stoning in Islam, calling it barbaric, brutal, and backwardness. Yet they will completely ignore it when it's in their own Bible, and they will continue to praise their God for being so holy and lovely!

Edited July 31, 2013 by dairygirl4u2c

[dairygirl4u2c]

kinda ironic and funny, that he uses the word 'liberal' to decry the Christians he is referring to. it is only conservative Christians who try to justify everything the bible teaches.... and try to decry liberals themselves. yet here, it appears, if you have any heart at all, that the tables have turned, and suddenly the conservative christen, is the liberal.

[CatholicsAreKewl]

If I'm not mistaken, all jurists agree that the punishment for adultery is stoning for the married violator. While it's not fair to assume all Muslims are in favor of stoning, it's disingenuous for Muslims to try respond to these attacks by using Old Testament passages that aren't taken seriously anymore. The author makes a good point, being that it's unfair to judge the god of Islam based on the Qur'an when the Old Testament has some nasty things in it. However, there's a bigger problem that's often overlooked, and that's the fact that many Muslims still take the writings of these jurists seriously. 

Edited August 1, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[dairygirl4u2c]

the typical response for those fundamentalist to the bible, is that the requirements of the law of been nailed to the cross, as said. and, bottomline, the wages of sin is death. apparently that includes more than your natural life's death, but includes stoning too. they might say stoning was just the way they did executions back then, and might add that at least it's not more barbaric types of executions.

problem, is that by far and away most Christians wouldnot  admit to thinking it was what God wanted even though the bible says it. most if I polled them, would say it was not God, or something. then an ererie silence on what to make of it all.  should be such a long list of crimes, a lot of them petty,that required death? few sane person would think it. it would be outlawed here, if it was that way. that's probably an issue they have, should we allow majority rule that says no stoning if the quaran says to stone? or other issues.

[dairygirl4u2c]

Matthew 15

Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, ² â€œWhy do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

³ Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? ⁴ For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’^[a] and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’^{[b] 5} But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ ⁶ they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. ⁷ You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

⁸ â€œâ€˜These people honor me with their lips,
    but their hearts are far from me.
⁹ They worship me in vain;
    their teachings are merely human rules.’^[c]”

 

 

I read this and I admit I don't know what to make of it. this says tht Jesus said God said they are to be put to death. not just that th e OT says it. maybe we are forced to conclude this is wrong, or that God did in fact say it.

[CatholicsAreKewl]

the typical response for those fundamentalist to the bible, is that the requirements of the law of been nailed to the cross, as said. and, bottomline, the wages of sin is death. apparently that includes more than your natural life's death, but includes stoning too. they might say stoning was just the way they did executions back then, and might add that at least it's not more barbaric types of executions.

problem, is that by far and away most Christians wouldnot  admit to thinking it was what God wanted even though the bible says it. most if I polled them, would say it was not God, or something. then an ererie silence on what to make of it all.  should be such a long list of crimes, a lot of them petty,that required death? few sane person would think it. it would be outlawed here, if it was that way. that's probably an issue they have, should we allow majority rule that says no stoning if the quaran says to stone? or other issues.

 

Well, what the Qur'an says is open to interpretation on this particular issue. Since you need four witnesses, some would argue that it was never meant for application. I don't really care how people argue these claims. I think the biggest problem is that many Muslims still follow the jurisprudence of those who approved of stoning as a valid method of punishment (among many other horrible things). I think many Muslims we would encounter in America are either unaware of much of what their jurists say or simply ignore the negative passages. There's a movement within Islam that encourages a fresh look at the Islamic scriptures in light of a new understanding of basic human rights. Some of them argue that the rulings of the jurists made sense given the context/their understanding but should not be applied the same way today. Others, like Irshad Manji, call for Muslims to ignore the works of these jurists and the hadiths and simply focus on the Qur'an. 

Edited August 2, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[dairygirl4u2c]

what's strange when ya think about it. is that the bible says that God told Moses a lot of those stoning rules, and strange uncleanliness rules etc. the same moses that everyone associates with the ten commandments. 

most people if they were honest, with others an themselves, do not believe the bible when it says that stuff. it's strange that they have warm fuzzy feelings from growing up and in general about the ten commandments, but basically diverge with all the other BS from moses.