Anselm Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 That is a common enough viewpoint, but it is a strange one to me, because breaking a law can lead to punishment in this life; while embracing heresy (or remaining silent and possibly allowing others to be deceived) has eternal consequences. Yes but I didn't say that it was right, did I? All I said was that it is common. However, if you're talking about everlasting consequences, I'm sure Our Lord will not judge those contemplative religious who did not agree with the potentially heretical opinions of their superiors but who kept silent through holy obedience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Yes but I didn't say that it was right, did I? All I said was that it is common. However, if you're talking about everlasting consequences, I'm sure Our Lord will not judge those contemplative religious who did not agree with the potentially heretical opinions of their superiors but who kept silent through holy obedience. St. Maximos the Confessor was a monk, but he was anything but silent in the face of the monothelite heresy. Of course he also suffered a martyrs death for his fidelity to Christ. :smile3: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselm Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 St. Maximos the Confessor was a monk, but he was anything but silent in the face of the monothelite heresy. Of course he also suffered a martyrs death for his fidelity to Christ. :smile3: So? He had hardly spent a quiet, contemplative life up to then. As much as I admire him he was a professional theologian and debater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselm Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 (and he wasn't martyred) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 CrossCuT, is your boyfriend considering joining the Catholic Church? He seems to keep bringing up some rather pointed disagreements with Catholicism to you; which I know that personally, I was desperate to find fault with the Church when I was scared of converting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 (edited) So? He had hardly spent a quiet, contemplative life up to then. As much as I admire him he was a professional theologian and debater. In the 7th century there was no such thing as a "professional theologian." And in the Eastern Christian tradition all monks and nuns are contemplative, the modern Western proclivity of breaking things and people into different categories has never been accepted in the East. As far as the distinction between a martyr and a confessor is concerned, it is a quibble, because he ultimately died for defending the Orthodox faith and bore the effects of the passion in his body by the torture inflicted upon him. A torture that eventually brought about his death for Christ. Edited July 29, 2013 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 The following is a life of St. Maximus the Confessor and Martyr compiled by St. Demetrius of Rostov The Twenty-First Day of the Month of January The Life of Our Holy Monastic Father Maximus the Confessor and Martyr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted July 29, 2013 Author Share Posted July 29, 2013 CrossCuT, is your boyfriend considering joining the Catholic Church? He seems to keep bringing up some rather pointed disagreements with Catholicism to you; which I know that personally, I was desperate to find fault with the Church when I was scared of converting. He already went through RCIA and received his sacraments this past Easter. I know his intentions are good but I was honestly trying to understand this topic more myself because I felt that this couldnt have been as big of an issue as it has blown up to be. Sister Maries last post helped a lot. Seems like there are some rogue sisters out there who made it appear as if the majority is behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselm Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 In the 7th century there was no such thing as a "professional theologian." And in the Eastern Christian tradition all monks and nuns are contemplative, the modern Western proclivity of breaking things and people into different categories has never been accepted in the East. As far as the distinction between a martyr and a confessor is concerned, it is a quibble, because he ultimately died for defending the Orthodox faith and bore the effects of the passion in his body by the torture inflicted upon him. A torture that eventually brought about his death for Christ. In the Western Christian Tradition, there is and most of his academic career was spent in western, Latin, Carthage. In any case, the proving of the opinions of one saint hardly proves the case. Again, in the Western Church he is a Confessor, not a Martyr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselm Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 He already went through RCIA and received his sacraments this past Easter. I know his intentions are good but I was honestly trying to understand this topic more myself because I felt that this couldnt have been as big of an issue as it has blown up to be. Sister Maries last post helped a lot. Seems like there are some rogue sisters out there who made it appear as if the majority is behind them. Crosscut, the problem is when they democratically represent the whole - then they technically do represent all of those in their communities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted July 29, 2013 Author Share Posted July 29, 2013 None of our political leaders in the US represent my views much at all. :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 He already went through RCIA and received his sacraments this past Easter. I know his intentions are good but I was honestly trying to understand this topic more myself because I felt that this couldnt have been as big of an issue as it has blown up to be. Sister Maries last post helped a lot. Seems like there are some rogue sisters out there who made it appear as if the majority is behind them. Okay and Congratulations to T. on his entrance into the Church! :) And agreed, Sister Marie's given the best explanation I've never heard of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 Yeah, I really appreciate his point of view on ALL of these subjects but he was raised in the Episcopal church so he is more akin to their views on female priests and homosexuality. We have had many interesting discussion on homosexuality which I have very much appreciated however this new topic is not something we have discussed at length. But I really like Sister Marie's point of view; it isnt one that a lot of us have and it offers some additional insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselm Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 None of our political leaders in the US represent my views much at all. :unsure: But you have the option of vocally objecting - a nun in solemn vows must accept, if not agree with, the views of her superiors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 I feel like the teachings of the Church Herself can trump that, but what do I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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