Invalid Confession And Reconfessing

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

In confession the priest and I decided that my last confession was invalid. When I asked if I should re-do my last confession he said no. To make sure we were talking about the same thing I asked if he thought I received the Eucharist unworthily (hopefully this wasn't to manipulative I already confessed that I was in mortal sin when I received; could this be another invalid confession?). He said I did, but it didn't matter since I already confessed that. So out of obedience I didn't confess those sins. Should I try to sneak them in next time? To a different priest? Or can I just leave them?

[Brother Adam]

Sneaking them in would be a bit manipulative (or perhaps deceitful) and confession is about openness. Since we don't know all of the details of the confession (nor do we) we can assume that the priest was right to tell you that you do not need to say them out loud again and the absolution you received from him is valid. Be at peace.

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

Sneaking them in would be a bit manipulative (or perhaps deceitful) and confession is about openness. Since we don't know all of the details of the confession (nor do we) we can assume that the priest was right to tell you that you do not need to say them out loud again and the absolution you received from him is valid. Be at peace.

 

Thanks. The priest isn't fully aware of the sin that invalidated my confession. I had originally confessed it to a different priest and may not have explained it as good as a could have this time (not intentionally). He told me he didn't think it was healthy to re-mention these sins because it denied the grace from confession. That's one of the reasons I asked if he thought I had received communion unworthily (if he didn't it would indicate he really didn't view my confession as invalid).I assumed that this confession was valid because I was only acting out of obedience and was fully prepared to confess them. I even brought a list of the sins from my last confession. If he told me I could mention them I would have. My biggest concern is how far does this obedience extend?

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

Thanks. The priest isn't fully aware of the sin that invalidated my confession. I had originally confessed it to a different priest and may not have explained it as good as a could have this time (not intentionally). He told me he didn't think it was healthy to re-mention these sins because it denied the grace from confession. That's one of the reasons I asked if he thought I had received communion unworthily (if he didn't it would indicate he really didn't view my confession as invalid).  I assumed that this confession was valid because I was only acting out of obedience and was fully prepared to confess them. I even brought a list of the sins from my last confession. If he told me I could mention them I would have .I may have been hoping I wouldn't have to for the sake of time, but this obviously didn't affect my confession. He did view my last confession as invalid after all. Granted  I wonder if more information would have changed his mind. I left some of it out (or maybe just didn't emphasize it) because I thought it could invalidate my confession (this may seem odd, but it involved truth obtained with bad intent). In the end I wanted to give him an overview and then obtain his opinion. I didn't want to keep giving new information that supported a different judgement because then I would be compelled to give information that contradicted that point of view. Or I'd just end up worrying about the confession's validity. The biggest problem is that the situation is complex enough where an emphasis on a different thing will change someone's assessment of my confession's validity. I thought it was just best to say something and then lay the whole issue to rest. If he thought it was valid then leave it, if he disagreed then re-do the previous confession. But with him telling me not to re-confess I was thrown for a loop. 

 

 

Sorry for the double post, but I was unable to edit my previous one.

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

Sorry to triple post, but I've been thinking about this a little more and had another question. Could I ask a different priest if I should confess those sins? I'm not sure because it feels a little manipulative; granted I did this sort of thing before when a priest (one that I didn't know) gave me questionable advice. In this case both priests are my co-confessors. I know this betrays conventional wisdom, but due to parish problems, I'm alternating between two parishes. So if I went to the other priest would my actions be disobedient? Would it be better for me to just assume I have no need to re-do the invalid confession?

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

Oh, I guess I turned it into a quadruple post.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Poorly Catechized Convert

[morostheos]

 Would it be better for me to just assume I have no need to re-do the invalid confession?

 

It's not a matter of assuming anything - be at peace with what the priest told you. God always gives great graces for being obedient.   

[GeorgiiMichael]

Confession isn't like balancing out a checkbook. If a priest told you that you didn't need to say them again, and then he gave you absolution this time, those sins are no longer on your soul and you need to move on. You're being overly scrupulous, and it can be just as bad for your spiritual health as being unscrupulous.  Be at peace, you've received the forgiveness of God. That's all you need.

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

Confession isn't like balancing out a checkbook. If a priest told you that you didn't need to say them again, and then he gave you absolution this time, those sins are no longer on your soul and you need to move on. You're being overly scrupulous, and it can be just as bad for your spiritual health as being unscrupulous.  Be at peace, you've received the forgiveness of God. That's all you need.

 

You're right; my problem is that I felt that the priest's reasoning may have been slightly off. But, God won't blame me for following that advice. Especially if my reasoning is to trust the priest and to be obedient. Plus the thing that invalidates confession is intentionally hiding things. Since I was and am willing to confess them, I don't have that problem. Although, I do dislike the fact that I didn't and don't want to remake that confession. Not out of embarrassment, but because it was the last confession in a series that came from a period of spiritual struggling. I want to leave it in the past and move forward. Maybe God is allowing me to do that. What I fear is that in fighting my scrupulosity, I'll begin dismissing things that really are problematic. My reaction to my invalid confession is proof that I have done that at least once (I had assumed it was valid and received the Eucharist).

Edited July 29, 2013 by Poorly Catechized Convert

[cappie]

Unless the advice is clear contrary to the teaching of the Church (which in this case it isn't) then you should be at peace, however difficult that may be. It is a tactic of the deceiver to sow doubt in our minds about the forgiveness of sins. On the cross he didn’t say, ‘It is not finished, so beat yourself up to add to your salvation.’ He said, ‘It is finished!’ So be at peace :saint2:

[Amppax]

You're right; my problem is that I felt that the priest's reasoning may have been slightly off. But, God won't blame me for following that advice. Especially if my reasoning is to trust the priest and to be obedient. Plus the thing that invalidates confession is intentionally hiding things. Since I was and am willing to confess them, I don't have that problem. Although, I do dislike the fact that I didn't and don't want to remake that confession. Not out of embarrassment, but because it was the last confession in a series that came from a period of spiritual struggling. I want to leave it in the past and move forward. Maybe God is allowing me to do that. What I fear is that in fighting my scrupulosity, I'll begin dismissing things that really are problematic. My reaction to my invalid confession is proof that I have done that at least once (I had assumed it was valid and received the Eucharist).

 

I don't know if you've seen it, but there was a thread a couple months ago with a link to a great ebook about the struggle with scrupulosity.  I'll see if I can find it.  

 

Found it! Here's a link to the thread: http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/128141-rules-for-the-scrupulous-person/

Edited July 29, 2013 by Amppax

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

Thanks.  I do hesitate to fully treat everything as if it's purely scruples and  instead of mostly a lack of knowledge. I feel that most of the time it's because certain things fall into a gray area, where it's hard to tell if it's mortal or venial. The same situation happens with confession validity. I feel that it's important to note that I never confess or think about confessing intrusive thoughts. Those a quite clearly non-sinful since they aren't consented to. What I confess are always things that are grave matter, but I'm unsure if they had full knowledge or consent, or I did have full consent and full knowledge, but I'm not sure if it was grave matter. A lot of that can seem quite subjective, especially when you don't have any catechesis on moral theology. I feel as if I was told to make it up as I go after I was confirmed. In RCIA I never had the chance to ask questions on this topic; it wasn't even covered. The only place I could ask these questions is inside the confessional and that's not the most comfortable place to do that. It's not fun asking a priest multiple questions of this sort. 

[Freedom]

Do a General Confession of all your mortal sins, including sins you've already confessed.

[cmaD2006]

Do a General Confession of all your mortal sins, including sins you've already confessed.

Actually for someone who is suffering from scrupilocity it would be the wrong thing to do.

My suggestions:
A) stick to one confessor
B) if you have a priest around that you trust, maybe consider making an appointment outside of the normal confession time to discuss these doubts. Then you can lay out the specifics and clear the doubts.

Finally it is part of the enemy's tactics to make us doubt forgiveness. You also have to remember that if you didn't fully confess a specific occasion of serious sin and you weren't aware of the extent of the sin (especially if you're a convert, or even poorly catechized) ok, maybe confess the full extent but because you went with good and clear intentions to confession then that sacrament (I would dare say) would have been valid. Now .... if you intentionally hid a mortal sin say due to embarrassment (not due to unintentional forgetfulness) then that's a whole other ballgame. Edited July 30, 2013 by cmariadiaz

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

Actually for someone who is suffering from scrupilocity it would be the wrong thing to do.

My suggestions:
A) stick to one confessor
B) if you have a priest around that you trust, maybe consider making an appointment outside of the normal confession time to discuss these doubts. Then you can lay out the specifics and clear the doubts.

Finally it is part of the enemy's tactics to make us doubt forgiveness. You also have to remember that if you didn't fully confess a specific occasion of serious sin and you weren't aware of the extent of the sin (especially if you're a convert, or even poorly catechized) ok, maybe confess the full extent but because you went with good and clear intentions to confession then that sacrament (I would dare say) would have been valid. Now .... if you intentionally hid a mortal sin say due to embarrassment (not due to unintentional forgetfulness) then that's a whole other ballgame.

 

I am trying to find one confessor. My problem is that while the one I trust the most seems pretty orthodox, I prefer confessing to the other (I like some of his advice and the fact that I can confess anonymously). Also, the other priest presides over a more reverent congregation; since I can only go to confession right before Mass, I find it easier to just go to the other priest. But, I have a sense of loyalty to the more trusted priest. There's also the fact that I'll have no choice, but to change confessors in a couple of months, so I don't see much of a point in establishing a regular confessor yet; right now I'm just trying to push through this and then get things together once I meet my new priest.

 

So I'm going to add two more confession validity questions. You're all free to ignore them. I've already made the assumption that they didn't invalidate anything and am planning on verifying with my priest soon. I'm just putting them here to see if I get any additional feedback/advice.

 

Would messing up the number fall under not realizing the full extent? For example I told a lie that was a mortal sin (I'm positive of this, not scruples). I confessed it as one time, but failed to realize that I told the same lie to the same person multiple times a day, in addition to one other person. I don't believe that I was trying to hide anything because explaining the circumstances that made it mortal was the most embarrassing part. Saying five times instead of once would have been easy.

 

Also, for hiding something, could hiding that I almost made a hand motion count as something that could invalidate it. I was about to make air quotes to indicate that I didn't support women priests. I had my hand and figure already in position, but then decided it wasn't appropriate so I placed my fingures on the side of my head. This was to hide that I almost did something that I viewed as inappropriate. Was there anything wrong with this?

Edited July 30, 2013 by Poorly Catechized Convert