Chiquitunga Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 "In a recent conversation with Cardinal Burke, I asked him about this requirement, and he reaffirmed that physical virginity is required from the very rationale of the rite itself. In the rite, the virgin presents her virginity to the Church, and the bishop consecrates that virginity to our Lord. As this pertains to pastoral practice, His Eminence said that bishops or vicars general need not pry into the past sexual history of the candidate but should explain to her what consecrated virginity is (as above) and allow the candidate to voluntarily withdraw if she is ineligible, perhaps making a private vow of chastity instead. This would avoid a manifestation of conscience in the external forum but still respects the norms of the rite and the essence of consecrated virginity." http://canonicallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2011/09/physical-virginity-as-requirement-for.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 "In a recent conversation with Cardinal Burke, I asked him about this requirement, and he reaffirmed that physical virginity is required from the very rationale of the rite itself. In the rite, the virgin presents her virginity to the Church, and the bishop consecrates that virginity to our Lord. As this pertains to pastoral practice, His Eminence said that bishops or vicars general need not pry into the past sexual history of the candidate but should explain to her what consecrated virginity is (as above) and allow the candidate to voluntarily withdraw if she is ineligible, perhaps making a private vow of chastity instead. This would avoid a manifestation of conscience in the external forum but still respects the norms of the rite and the essence of consecrated virginity." http://canonicallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2011/09/physical-virginity-as-requirement-for.html That's the moral way to do it. I have no problem with them explaining the requirement in detail and then allowing the candidate to follow her conscience. If there is no trust from the beginning and the Bishop asks for a physical exam, what kind of relationship would that lead to between the CV and Bishop? It'd be messed up from the beginning. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God's Beloved Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 I wonder whether anyone here would like to discuss about the action of the Holy Spirit in the consecration of virgins......and thus why this vocation is not religious life . Here are a few thoughts open to discernment , correction , agreement , disagreement........ In the Catholic church there are two kinds of blessings for consecrated life : Constitutive and Invocative . [Read This and This] 1] In the Consecration of virgins- according to the intention of the church ,once the virgin has made her proposito or resolution, it is by the very words of the Prayer of consecration prayed by the bishop that the virgin’s body is constituted as sacred [for God] and set apart for the Service of the church. This is according to the theology of liturgy in the Early Church. 2] Religious men and women are consecrated by the act of ‘Professing’ vows at the hands of the legitimate religious superior with all other canonical requirements like formation etc. being in place .The prayer of blessing or consecration in a religious profession which can be prayed by a priest- is intended by the church to be an Invocative blessing. This is according to the theology of St Thomas Aquinas around the 13th century. The Epiklesis of the prayer in the rite of Profession of religious mentions: Send the fire of your Holy Spirit into the heart of this, your daughter, to keep alive within her the holy desire He has given her………………. The Epiklesis of the prayer in the rite of Consecration of virgins mentions the Gift of the Holy Spirit [as in the sacrament of Confirmation ] Through the gift of your Spirit, Lord, give them modesty with right judgment, kindness with true wisdom, gentleness with strength of character, freedom with the grace of chastity. Give them the warmth of love, to love you above all others. Make their lives deserve our praise, without seeking to be praised. May they give you glory by holiness of action and purity of heart. May they love you and fear you; may they love you and serve you. I liked the explanation given in this link regarding the 7 gifts of the Holy Spirit : St. Thomas Aquinas says that four of these gifts (wisdom, understanding, knowledge, and counsel) direct the intellect, while the other three gifts (fortitude, piety, and fear of the Lord) direct the will toward God. In some respects, the gifts are similar to the virtues, but a key distinction is that the virtues operate under the impetus of human reason (prompted by grace), whereas the gifts operate under the impetus of the Holy Spirit; the former can be used when one wishes, but the latter operate only when the Holy Spirit wishes. In the case of Fortitude, the gift has, in Latin and English, the same name as a virtue, which it is related to but from which it must be distinguished. In Summa Theologica II.II, Thomas Aquinas asserts the following correspondences between the seven Capital Virtues and the seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit:[11] The gift of wisdom corresponds to the virtue of charity. The gifts of understanding and knowledge correspond to the virtue of faith. The gift of counsel (right judgment) corresponds to the virtue of prudence. The gift of fortitude corresponds to the virtue of courage. The gift of fear of the Lord corresponds to the virtue of hope. The gift of Reverence corresponds to the virtue of justice. To the virtue of temperance, no Gift is directly assigned; but the gift of fear can be taken as such, since fear drives somebody to restrict himself from forbidden pleasures. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church : [ writing in black is from the catechism regarding Confirmaton. The comments in brown are regarding consecrated virginity ] III. THE EFFECTS OF CONFIRMATION 1302 It is evident from its celebration that the effect of the sacrament of Confirmation is the special outpouring of the Holy Spirit as once granted to the apostles on the day of Pentecost.1303 From this fact, Confirmation brings an increase and deepening of baptismal grace: - it roots us more deeply in the divine filiation which makes us cry, "Abba! Father!";117[According to Canon law 604 --this is parallel to the consecration of the virgin to God ] - it unites us more firmly to Christ; [ this is parallel to the mystical espousal of the virgin to Jesus Christ ]. - it increases the gifts of the Holy Spirit in us; [this is parallel to the dedication of the virgin to the service of the church ]. - it renders our bond with the Church more perfect;118 - it gives us a special strength of the Holy Spirit to spread and defend the faith by word and action as true witnesses of Christ, to confess the name of Christ boldly, and never to be ashamed of the Cross:119 Recall then that you have received the spiritual seal, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of right judgment and courage, the spirit of knowledge and reverence, the spirit of holy fear in God's presence. Guard what you have received. God the Father has marked you with his sign; Christ the Lord has confirmed you and has placed his pledge, the Spirit, in your hearts.120 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The parallels between the Sacraments of initiation , especially the Sacrament of Confirmation and the Consecration of virgins which is a Constitutive Sacramental , indicate that the vocation is rooted in the sacraments of Initiation and deepens Sacramental grace. Thus the consecrated virgin becomes an eschatological image of the Church’s Love for Christ, inspiring and animating the vocation to holiness ,union with God , of every baptized person in the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God's Beloved Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 The Edit function of the previous post did not work . So here's the rest of it. The parallels between the Sacraments of initiation , especially the Sacrament of Confirmation and the Consecration of virgins which is a Constitutive Sacramental , indicate that the vocation is rooted in the sacraments of Initiation and deepens Sacramental grace. Thus the consecrated virgin becomes an eschatological image of the Church’s Love for Christ, inspiring and animating the vocation to holiness ,union with God , of every baptized person in the Church. The CV is called to be a Role model of what the entire Church community who is the Bride of Christ is called to be and to do. An examination of conscience would suggest that persons who have received this rite hardly seem to be Role models in this sense . What is blocking the action of the Holy Spirit ? individualism ? spiritual romanticism ? lack of support , lack of unity ? Any discerner ought to be aware that God gives us the Gift of His Spirit but we need to constantly desire to Follow Christ in daily life in love of neighbour , to allow the Spirit to act through us. We also need support of the rest of the catholic community- --which unfortunately is lacking around the world for this vocation ---hence CV tend to get bitter, defensive about the uniqueness of being bride of Christ . This may not be intended to hurt or put down persons of other vocations.....but it can come across like that. Personally i find myself very very far from the Ideal ....even as a baptized and confirmed individual. please pray for me. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sr Mary Catharine OP Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Why CV is not religious life is actually quite easy. Professing the evangelical counsels is under the virtue of Religion which is about offering oneself to the service of God, to quote St. Thomas. Virginity is under the Virtue of Temperance not under the virtue of Religion. As stated above (Question [81], Article [1], ad 1; Article [4], ad 1,2; Question [85], Article [3]) when we were treating of the virtue of religion, religion has reference not only to the offering of sacrifices and other like things that are proper to religion, but also to the acts of all the virtues which in so far as these are referred to God's service and honor become acts of religion. Accordingly if a man devotes his whole life to the divine service, his whole life belongs to religion, and thus by reason of the religious life that they lead, those who are in the state of perfection are called religious. Question 186 on the Religious State Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponsa-Christi Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Why CV is not religious life is actually quite easy. Professing the evangelical counsels is under the virtue of Religion which is about offering oneself to the service of God, to quote St. Thomas. Virginity is under the Virtue of Temperance not under the virtue of Religion. I do think, though, that a vocation to consecrated virginity as a state in life is much more than just living out the virtue of virginity. I don’t recall the exact quote, but I know St. Augustine also noted a difference between simply being a virgin and deliberately consecrating one’s virginity. Consecrated virginity is a call to make a permanent commitment to a life of virginity, which is intended as special eschatological witness and directly ordered to the service of the Church. And, according to our Holy Father Emeritus, the charism of consecrated virginity “…entails a total gift to Christ, an assimilation of the Bridegroom who implicitly asks for the observance of the evangelical counsels in order to keep your fidelity to him unstained.†(source) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 God's Beloved, I'm a little confused about what you said regarding constitutive and invocative blessings. It seems to me from this article, that religious also receive a constitutive blessing? I'd be interested in your thoughts :) http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/WHATBLES.HTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sr Mary Catharine OP Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 I do think, though, that a vocation to consecrated virginity as a state in life is much more than just living out the virtue of virginity. I don’t recall the exact quote, but I know St. Augustine also noted a difference between simply being a virgin and deliberately consecrating one’s virginity. Consecrated virginity is a call to make a permanent commitment to a life of virginity, which is intended as special eschatological witness and directly ordered to the service of the Church. And, according to our Holy Father Emeritus, the charism of consecrated virginity “…entails a total gift to Christ, an assimilation of the Bridegroom who implicitly asks for the observance of the evangelical counsels in order to keep your fidelity to him unstained.†(source) Yes, but CV is not religious life, it is a Consecrated Life but it is a secular state. Anyone living a serious life striving for holiness is called to live the evangelical counsels, priests for example, but religious life by definition is a "state of perfection" where lives out the counsels of poverty, chastity and obedience by vow. The Church has always held that just being a virgin is well, just being a virgin. The beauty and merit is that it is consecrated virginity. Even in religious life one is living virginity (either integral or "reclaimed") that is consecrated by the vow of chastity not just being celibate. It is not the virginity of the Consecrated Virgin but it is a virginity consecrated nonetheless. One is offering to God as a holocaust one's possessions, one's body and one's will. If a person is called to religious life than being a consecrated virgin will not be "enough" for that person. And the other as well, if one is called to be a consecrated virgin, religious life will not be "enough" as well. There are objective degrees of "perfection" and the Church has always considered religious life a "higher" state of life but that doesn't make the person living Religious life better or more holy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God's Beloved Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 God's Beloved, I'm a little confused about what you said regarding constitutive and invocative blessings. It seems to me from this article, that religious also receive a constitutive blessing? I'd be interested in your thoughts :) http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/WHATBLES.HTM Dear MarysLittleFlower, The theology of consecration of virgins through a Prayer of Consecration by a bishop [ Early Church : 1st 4 centuries] is a totally different paradigm from the theology of consecration of religious through a Profession of vows at the hands of the Religious superior. We cannot really compare the two paradigms . In the consecration of virgins , the candidate is consecrated through a Constitutive blessing .viz. it is by the very words of the prayer of consecration [the rite is reserved to a Bishop] and which includes specific gift of the Holy Spirit -that her status is changed from lay to consecrated virgin. In the perpetual profession of religious , the sister already belongs through temporary vows to a congregation or institute which has a public juridic status in the church and has certain church approved constitution :statutes or regulations and requirements like a specific period of formation , specific apostolate according to the charism of the institute etc. So when the religious makes her final vows as a member of the institute , she is making a juridical act of consecration through vows according to their constitutions. These are 'constitutive vows' which are a sacrifice to God , a total consecration of self to God by the very words of the vows. This is followed by a prayer of invocative blessing because the Church does not intend to consecrate a religious through this blessing. The religious consecrates herself through vows. That's why if a religious after perpetual vows decides to leave the institute , she is totally freed from the vows and thus freed from the consecration according to the constitution of the institute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sr Mary Catharine OP Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 "That's why if a religious after perpetual vows decides to leave the institute , she is totally freed from the vows and thus freed from the consecration according to the constitution of the institute." In the Dominican Order we have always held the ancient monastic understanding that with Profession one is consecrated BY GOD. It is two-fold movement--one vows oneself to God and He consecrates one to Himself. We never had the consecratory prayer or blessing for this reason. In Solemn Vows the consecration remains but one is dispensed from the obligation of the vows. A human person, including the Pope, can't undo a consecration by God. He can only dispense from the obligations. Even if one is married that consecration remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Thank you for the reply :) I'm trying to relate this to the ewtn article... would you agree that there is something constitutive in both Rites, for Consecrated Virginity and Religious life? am I understanding correctly that in religious life it's the vows that do this, and in the consecration of virginity it's the words of the Bishop? I seem to remember reading before (maybe I'm wrong) that there's a difference between Sisters and nuns... is it true that nuns who make the solemn profession can't be freed from their vows? what about Sisters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 "That's why if a religious after perpetual vows decides to leave the institute , she is totally freed from the vows and thus freed from the consecration according to the constitution of the institute." In the Dominican Order we have always held the ancient monastic understanding that with Profession one is consecrated BY GOD. It is two-fold movement--one vows oneself to God and He consecrates one to Himself. We never had the consecratory prayer or blessing for this reason. In Solemn Vows the consecration remains but one is dispensed from the obligation of the vows. A human person, including the Pope, can't undo a consecration by God. He can only dispense from the obligations. Even if one is married that consecration remains. That's what I meant too about Solemn Vows :) what about Sisters who don't say the Solemn Vows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrideofChrist Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Yes, but CV is not religious life, it is a Consecrated Life but it is a secular state. Anyone living a serious life striving for holiness is called to live the evangelical counsels, priests for example, but religious life by definition is a "state of perfection" where lives out the counsels of poverty, chastity and obedience by vow. The Church has always held that just being a virgin is well, just being a virgin. The beauty and merit is that it is consecrated virginity. Even in religious life one is living virginity (either integral or "reclaimed") that is consecrated by the vow of chastity not just being celibate. It is not the virginity of the Consecrated Virgin but it is a virginity consecrated nonetheless. One is offering to God as a holocaust one's possessions, one's body and one's will. If a person is called to religious life than being a consecrated virgin will not be "enough" for that person. And the other as well, if one is called to be a consecrated virgin, religious life will not be "enough" as well. There are objective degrees of "perfection" and the Church has always considered religious life a "higher" state of life but that doesn't make the person living Religious life better or more holy. Sr. Mary Catherine. I have requested that you look up St. Thomas Aquinas several times and you, even though you are a Dominican, are either not able to or are unwilling to quote from him regarding the vocation to consecrated virginity. Strange that a Dominican would be unwilling to borrow from St. Thomas' practice of bringing up the other positions in his discussions. But not very surprising when you take into consideration that he does have some powerful things to say about consecrated virginity that certain religious may wish to be suppressed. I do not know how much you learned about the different vocations in the Church. But it is interesting, is it not, that the Church does actually consider a consecrated virgin to be in a state of perfection, a fact which you appear to deny in your first paragraph. If so, how do you reconcile that with the following which was written in an Apostolic Constitution: 5. To those who chose to make public external profession of perfection in any form the Church, like a good mother acquiescing in a child's request, has always given every kind of help for so holy a purpose. For individual profession of perfection - always "coram Ecclesia" in the face of the Church, and public - it was provided that the Church herself should receive it and recognize it. But the Church has always wisely given it the seal of her sanction and strenuously defended it and given it many canonical effects. This is seen in the primitive and venerable Blessing and Consecration of Virgins[7] which had its own liturgical rite. Or, take for example, the fact that the Church considers the consecration of religious, secular institute members, and consecrated virgins to be equal but different? Another thing. I don't know why you consider the CV vocation to be secular in nature. If it were, then how would you explain the fact that the Consecration may be given to religious or the fact that by the consecration, a virgin is constituted a "sacred person"? Just wondering. Maybe it's just me, but I would have thought that a Dominican nun would have more access to sources pertinent to these matters than most of the lay women on this board. I for one, am puzzled by the fact that a Dominican nun cannot explain why some Dominicans received the Consecration to a Life of Virginity. I was always under the impression that something so drastic would be recorded in Dominican history along with some scholarly explanation for such a departure from the Order's charism. Again, though, this is because I was under the impression that the nuns in the Order of Preachers were scholars. Maybe I am quite mistaken in this notion. If so, I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God's Beloved Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 "That's why if a religious after perpetual vows decides to leave the institute , she is totally freed from the vows and thus freed from the consecration according to the constitution of the institute." In the Dominican Order we have always held the ancient monastic understanding that with Profession one is consecrated BY GOD. It is two-fold movement--one vows oneself to God and He consecrates one to Himself. We never had the consecratory prayer or blessing for this reason. In Solemn Vows the consecration remains but one is dispensed from the obligation of the vows. A human person, including the Pope, can't undo a consecration by God. He can only dispense from the obligations. Even if one is married that consecration remains. Dear Sr.Mary Catharine, My intention was to speak about 'Sisters' in Institutes with simple but Perpetual vows. Vatican II --on which the New code of canon law is based --tried to remove the distinction between Institutes with Sisters of Simple vows and Orders with Nuns of Solemn vows , leaving the distinctions to the 'internal' traditions. So if the Dominican 'Order' as the very name suggests , has a certain tradition of understanding Solemn vows, I'm sure the Church respects it and acts accordingly. And I 'm obliged respect it too ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Sr. Mary Catherine. I have requested that you look up St. Thomas Aquinas several times and you, even though you are a Dominican, are either not able to or are unwilling to quote from him regarding the vocation to consecrated virginity. Strange that a Dominican would be unwilling to borrow from St. Thomas' practice of bringing up the other positions in his discussions. But not very surprising when you take into consideration that he does have some powerful things to say about consecrated virginity that certain religious may wish to be suppressed. I do not know how much you learned about the different vocations in the Church. But it is interesting, is it not, that the Church does actually consider a consecrated virgin to be in a state of perfection, a fact which you appear to deny in your first paragraph. If so, how do you reconcile that with the following which was written in an Apostolic Constitution: Or, take for example, the fact that the Church considers the consecration of religious, secular institute members, and consecrated virgins to be equal but different? Another thing. I don't know why you consider the CV vocation to be secular in nature. If it were, then how would you explain the fact that the Consecration may be given to religious or the fact that by the consecration, a virgin is constituted a "sacred person"? Just wondering. Maybe it's just me, but I would have thought that a Dominican nun would have more access to sources pertinent to these matters than most of the lay women on this board. I for one, am puzzled by the fact that a Dominican nun cannot explain why some Dominicans received the Consecration to a Life of Virginity. I was always under the impression that something so drastic would be recorded in Dominican history along with some scholarly explanation for such a departure from the Order's charism. Again, though, this is because I was under the impression that the nuns in the Order of Preachers were scholars. Maybe I am quite mistaken in this notion. If so, I apologize. abrideofchrist, she might not have time to look up the sources you requested. Even though she is active here, she doesn't post everyday and cloistered nuns are on a tight schedule because of prayer and work in the monastery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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