Era Might Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Again, we don't agree on things Catholic. Perhaps that is why I am a Catholic and you are not. mmmm you're the one advocating for the overthrow of tradition. Mind as well tear down the Hagia Sophia since it isn't Catholic anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselm Posted July 24, 2013 Author Share Posted July 24, 2013 OOh, is that an accusation of heresy? I'll settle in to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 mmmm you're the one advocating for the overthrow of tradition. Mind as well tear down the Hagia Sophia since it isn't Catholic anymore. I'm not advocating the overthrow of Catholic tradition. Just a Protestant / secular tradition to which - if you remember your history - the Popes have said Catholics owe no allegiance. Add to that: The Queen of England supports gay marriage. Charles is a religious relativist who wants to be known as "defender of faith" (meaning all "faiths"). And sadly for William he looks more like his dad all the time (that's about the worst thing I can say about him, since I really know nothing about him). That said, maybe baby George, after he grows up, will actually stand for something. But I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Mind as well tear down the Hagia Sophia since it isn't Catholic anymore. I would rather see Hagia Sophia torn down than turned into a mosque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselm Posted July 24, 2013 Author Share Posted July 24, 2013 You know nothing about the Queen's opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 I'm not advocating the overthrow of Catholic tradition. Just a Protestant / secular tradition to which - if you remember your history - the Popes have said Catholics owe no allegiance. Add to that: The Queen of England supports gay marriage. Charles is a religious relativist who wants to be known as "defender of faith" (meaning all "faiths"). And sadly for William he looks more like his dad all the time (that's about the worst thing I can say about him, since I really know nothing about him). That said, maybe baby George, after he grows up, will actually stand for something. But I doubt it. The world didn't begin with Catholicism. Neither did monarchy. If I had to discard everything that wasn't Catholic tradition there'd be a whole lot to get rid of, starting with the United States, the Patriarchate of Moscow, the Twilight Zone, and various and sundry moon rocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) You know nothing about the Queen's opinions. Well, if she is opposed to gay marriage it is sad that she doesn't actually support her own opinion. Those who do things contrary to their conscience will stand self-condemned before the bar of judgment. Edited July 24, 2013 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 The world didn't begin with Catholicism. Neither did monarchy. If I had to discard everything that wasn't Catholic tradition there'd be a whole lot to get rid of, starting with the United States, the Patriarchate of Moscow, the Twilight Zone, and various and sundry moon rocks. Again that is your non-Catholic opinion. For me as a Catholic, the faith is eternal, just as the Triune God is eternal. The Patriarchs and prophets all worshipped the Holy Trinity - as the Church Fathers and mystical saints - affirmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselm Posted July 24, 2013 Author Share Posted July 24, 2013 Well, if she is opposed to gay marriage it is sad that she doesn't actually support her own opinion. Those who do things contrary to their conscience will stand self-condemned before the bar of judgment. You're getting more and more confused about your own opinions; do you want a constitutional monarchy to have actual power over legislation or not? First of all you were glad that it doesn't and now you seem to be condemning Elizabeth II to Hell for allowing laws to be passed by the elected government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Again that is your non-Catholic opinion. For me as a Catholic, the faith is eternal, just as the Triune God is eternal. The Patriarchs and prophets all worshipped the Holy Trinity - as the Church Fathers and mystical saints - affirmed. Between the two of us, only one claims spiritual unity with the Orthodox church, so I'm not sure who you're calling a "non-Catholic." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 And, btw, I know of no Catholic teaching that you must support the overthrow of non-Catholic monarchies to be "Catholic," and I'd wager the the Pope doesn't share your views...unless he's non-Catholic too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 You're getting more and more confused about your own opinions; do you want a constitutional monarchy to have actual power over legislation or not? First of all you were glad that it doesn't and now you seem to be condemning Elizabeth II to Hell for allowing laws to be passed by the elected government. I haven't said anything about wanting or not wanting a monarchy of any kind. I am an American, why would I want a British constitutional (or otherwise) monarchy? I have simply said that if the British monarch actually exercises power the monarchy in England will end, and not because I oppose it, but because the British people don't really want to be ruled by Kings and Queens anymore. On the other question, I merely pointed out that Elizabeth II - at least if what you insinuate is true - did not follow her own conscience when she signed the "gay marriage" law. If she did not believe in "gay marriage" she should have refused to sign the bill, but she - again if you are correct - went against her own conscience and condemned herself before God and man. St. Thomas More would not be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselm Posted July 24, 2013 Author Share Posted July 24, 2013 You're a terribly conceited man aren't you? It must be wonderful to have such a talent for identifying and condemning the sins of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 And, btw, I know of no Catholic teaching that you must support the overthrow of non-Catholic monarchies to be "Catholic," and I'd wager the the Pope doesn't share your views...unless he's non-Catholic too. Popes dissolved the allegiance of Catholics to the kings of England long ago. But to be honest it does not even require a pope to do that, because no Catholic is bound to support something that is contrary to the natural moral law or divine revelation. For example: "gay marriage" laws - which of course have no legal standing because they are contrary to the moral norm - do not bind Catholics. And even without the exercise of papal or episcopal authority Catholics are - in conscience - duty bound to resist such enactments. The same holds with positive laws that are contrary to the good, which would include rulers - whether kings or presidents - no one is bound in conscience to support a person who has no real right to execise authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 You're a terribly conceited man aren't you? It must be wonderful to have such a talent for identifying and condemning the sins of others. I'm a sinner like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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