Martha And Mary

[BarbTherese]

Perhaps if Martha had done her work quietly, without becoming bitter because Mary was at the feet of Jesus, she may have had a "Mary experience" while being Martha.

When I am bitter and angry, my thoughts are occupied with bitter and angry thoughts - reasons why I have the right to feel as disturbed as I do.  But when things are getting to me and I am stressing out over them (negative thinking), I find that if I use that energy to get stuck into something menial that needs doing, a Peace and calm returns and all the disturbance subsides i.e. I have a "Mary experience".

 

I never thought of this story from the angle of Jesus either.

Jesus had been pretty busy.  He is travelling through the various towns preaching the Gospel with His apostles and disciples.  Perhaps by the time He got to Bethany (roughly 2miles or so out of Jerusalem) and the home of His friends, He was tired and wanted some Peace and quiet and a good meal.  Mary certainly gave Him the Peace and quiet and He talked softly to her (all in my imagination) as Mary was banging the dishes and "Tsk!  Tsk' Tsking!" over Mary with Martha's thought racing around occupying her head about how unfair it all was.  Finally, she complains to Jesus about her sister.  Jesus takes the side of Mary, Martha's sister, telling her that Mary has chosen the better part.  So Martha goes back to her work humiliated and very quiet, except for the occasional bang of a dish not quite able to let go of anger..........and Jesus, and all, have a measure of quiet and Peace........and still have a good meal to boot.  If Martha had gone about her work quietly, she may have overheard what Jesus was saying and her heart would have filled with wonder.  

 

The Martha and Mary story is always a great meditation and now I have some new angles.

 

Life is often, as nunsense commented, a matter of Martha and Mary living as one (integrated) and it really is amazing how when the two are integrated into the one person just how each is totally fulfilled and that fulfilment is a unity.  Sometimes Martha leads, sometimes Mary but both are working together.  Now and then (more then than now) I get there.  It is not the achieving so much as it is the continual striving despite failures and things coming adrift. Then it is simply "Try again!" in failure and drifting.  Thanksgiving and Praise to The Lord for His Grace in any success. 

"Lord grant success to the work of our hands". (Psalm, Divine Office

 

 

[AccountDeleted]

Perhaps if Martha had done her work quietly, without becoming bitter because Mary was at the feet of Jesus, she may have had a "Mary experience" while being Martha.

When I am bitter and angry, my thoughts are occupied with bitter and angry thoughts - reasons why I have the right to feel as disturbed as I do.  But when things are getting to me and I am stressing out over them (negative thinking), I find that if I use that energy to get stuck into something menial that needs doing, a Peace and calm returns and all the disturbance subsides i.e. I have a "Mary experience".

 

I never thought of this story from the angle of Jesus either.

Jesus had been pretty busy.  He is travelling through the various towns preaching the Gospel with His apostles and disciples.  Perhaps by the time He got to Bethany (roughly 2miles or so out of Jerusalem) and the home of His friends, He was tired and wanted some Peace and quiet and a good meal.  Mary certainly gave Him the Peace and quiet and He talked softly to her (all in my imagination) as Mary was banging the dishes and "Tsk!  Tsk' Tsking!" over Mary with Martha's thought racing around occupying her head about how unfair it all was.  Finally, she complains to Jesus about her sister.  Jesus takes the side of Mary, Martha's sister, telling her that Mary has chosen the better part.  So Martha goes back to her work humiliated and very quiet, except for the occasional bang of a dish not quite able to let go of anger..........and Jesus, and all, have a measure of quiet and Peace........and still have a good meal to boot.  If Martha had gone about her work quietly, she may have overheard what Jesus was saying and her heart would have filled with wonder.  

 

The Martha and Mary story is always a great meditation and now I have some new angles.

 

Life is often, as nunsense commented, a matter of Martha and Mary living as one (integrated) and it really is amazing how when the two are integrated into the one person just how each is totally fulfilled and that fulfilment is a unity.  Sometimes Martha leads, sometimes Mary but both are working together.  Now and then (more then than now) I get there.  It is not the achieving so much as it is the continual striving despite failures and things coming adrift. Then it is simply "Try again!" in failure and drifting.  Thanksgiving and Praise to The Lord for His Grace in any success. 

"Lord grant success to the work of our hands". (Psalm, Divine Office

 

 

 

My only question about this depiction of the Martha and Mary story is the portrayal of Martha's reaction after Jesus had spoken to her. as being humiliated and then returning to the kitchen angry enough to bang pots. :)

 

 

If I am going to imagine and embellish scriptural stories, I like to make them a little more positive. Since Jesus was the Incarnation of Love, I prefer to think that His gentle rebuke was said with so much love that Martha immediately felt humbled (not humiliated) and sat down at His feet with Mary to listen to Him.

 

Then (if we continue the imagination), after listening to Him for awhile, I see her either getting up and returning to her work feeling much refreshed and able to cope without Mary or even listening until He had finished what He was saying completely and then both Martha and Mary going into the kitchen to prepare the meal together in a spirit of love.

 

 

Just my perspective on it.

[AnneLine]

My only question about this depiction of the Martha and Mary story is the portrayal of Martha's reaction after Jesus had spoken to her. as being humiliated and then returning to the kitchen angry enough to bang pots. :)

 

I see what you mean there, Nunsense... but I know my own experience tends to be that I do EXACTLY that initially.  And then slowly the Lord's word and grace kind of quiets me down, and I start the move from humiliated to humbled... and then I am able to listen.  And I would imagine... if this was me going forward... that Jesus, who knew her, and her loving heart SO WELL, would know that she would get to that place, and he would raise his voice just a bit.... and address her loving heart in a way that she could listen to him as she finished up the dinner....

 

If I am going to imagine and embellish scriptural stories, I like to make them a little more positive. Since Jesus was the Incarnation of Love, I prefer to think that His gentle rebuke was said with so much love that Martha immediately felt humbled (not humiliated) and sat down at His feet with Mary to listen to Him.

 

Then (if we continue the imagination), after listening to Him for awhile, I see her either getting up and returning to her work feeling much refreshed and able to cope without Mary or even listening until He had finished what He was saying completely and then both Martha and Mary going into the kitchen to prepare the meal together in a spirit of love.

 

I could see your scenario.... in mine, as Martha brought in the dinner, the serving was delayed just a second while they all embraced in His love....

 

They had a meal that was truly a small 'e' 'eucharist' -- a meal of thanksgiving and fellowship, gathered in love together around the table with the Lord --

 

And all 4 of them did the dishes together with great joy after the meal!  And NO banging of pots!

 

Just my perspective on it.

 

Yup!     "And God saw that all that He had created was GOOD!"

 

Edited August 16, 2013 by AnneLine

[BarbTherese]

My manner of meditating very often is to put myself into the story just as I am and imagine my own personal reactions within the context of the story - my reactions not as I hope they would be but as they very likely could be.  In my imagination, I was Martha.  Jesus to me was not a wishy washy sort of person - his criticism of the Pharisees and at times others reveal that if He had something to say, then He simply said it.  I really love this about Jesus.  To my way of thought, Jesus would reach out to the other in an attempt to call them to change (behaviour) as in the Martha Mary story.  Jesus could be quite brisk or cutting times!  (As with Peter "Get behind me Satan!" = poor Peter, He was only very concerned about Jesus)  Although in the Martha/Mary story, I imagine Jesus turning very gently to Martha and simply commenting "Mary has chosen the better part" and then turning back to Mary.  But Martha (or me) rather regularly do not take a type of criticism joyfully initially at all, I can react in very negative ways. So Martha heats up with the criticism (and indirectly it was criticism) and negative thinking occupies and bounces around her mind as she bangs the dishes (a habit of my Mum's if upset).  This was the side of me I put into the story as a focused part of me and my reactions at times.

 

Then I began to reflect on the overall story I had presented to myself with Martha as me and how the story could be turned around from something negative into something positive in Martha by reflecting on a change of behaviour on the part of Martha or me.

 

There are many ways of prayerfully meditating and many ways of teasing out of a meditation what one needs to take.  And all are valid to me.  :)

Edited August 17, 2013 by BarbaraTherese

[AccountDeleted]

Yes, Barb - it's amazing how many ways there are to meditate on scripture. I hadn't seen this whole story from Jesus' point of view as described by Cappie until I read his post.

 

Lately though I have to admit that I want to be a Martha (keeping busy) because I am finding being Mary (contemplative) difficult right now. I am waiting for something and I never wait well. I could be using the time as I did in my hermit days, as a Mary, but right now I am finding that very difficult so I just want to keep busy. But there isn't really enough to keep me as busy as I would like because I have to wait for one thing before another is possible.

 

Life is amusing, isn't it?

 

 

[BarbTherese]

I had an answer waiting to post and then my computer flashed up a page "Bad Gateway" and I lost it.  Then my computer decided to opt out too and it took me ages to get it operational again.................and I am wearing black sox LOL.

I'll answer your last statement first;

Life is amusing, isn't it?

 

Ohhh yeahhh - life can be a barrel full of laughs at times...........so much so, I want to scream and have a temper tantrum and chuck my coffee up against the wall.  But nowadays I do refrain, while owning my feeling level as my very own and no one else's!

 

 

Yes, Barb - it's amazing how many ways there are to meditate on scripture. I hadn't seen this whole story from Jesus' point of view as described by Cappie until I read his post.

 

It was Cappie's post for me too that turned my mind to reflecting on Jesus's disposition in the story.

 

Lately though I have to admit that I want to be a Martha (keeping busy) because I am finding being Mary (contemplative) difficult right now. I am waiting for something and I never wait well. I could be using the time as I did in my hermit days, as a Mary, but right now I am finding that very difficult so I just want to keep busy. But there isn't really enough to keep me as busy as I would like because I have to wait for one thing before another is possible.

 

 

Nunsense, when I read that "Love is patient", I almost chucked the towel in.  Patience is one of those qualities that takes me jolly hard work and much application, sweat and tears.  I fall down!...............frequently! 

 

Nowadays I take Martha and Mary in my stride as they occur - although I tend to be like St Teresa of Avila (in this quality anyway) - I keep wanting to shake the hour glass.  I find that Mary will contemplate Martha and how she always has something to do, while Mary laments that she seems to have nothing at all to do and it is so distracting from this contemplation business.  LOL.

In Grace, The Lord is always with us and closer to us than our own selfhood.  I invest in that.  We are 'walking talking tabernacles' almost and Temples of The Holy Spirit.  Hence all happens as it will happen in His Time, not mine.  I just think He is asleep in the boat rather often and needs to be woken up and do things my way.   I read something once, which was like water to a thirsty person to me, "If the Lord is not in the driver's seat, then move over".  That and our dear St Mary of The Cross MacKillop "Do what you can and then leave the rest to God".  I had spent most 60 years trying to do my best without ever knowing where on earth my best could be.  Where it started, where it stopped.  But I sure know when I have done what I can.  I could have kissed Mary and given her a big hug of great Joy!

 

Don't know any answers for you, nunsense, since I am so lousy on the wait patiently business myself.  Go for a walk? Read a book? Ring up a friend? Scream? Have a temper tantrum and chuck your coffee cup up against a wall?   No help at all, nunsense.  None!  When I need to wait, I just keep trying to distract myself from the waiting business as best I can..............because if I focus on it as a problem to be cured, it just gets WORSE!  And never tempt W O R S E!   :cheers: 

 

The Lord's blessings on your waiting.........it is a cross, and not at all easy, I know...........Barb :)

 

[AccountDeleted]

Good heavens Barb - I didn't mean for it to sound like a terrible problem - I meant it was more of an ironic situation - that I, a Mary at heart, am wishing I were a Martha right now.

 

That's all, no big deal! :)

 

[BarbTherese]

 I, a Mary at heart, am wishing I were a Martha

 

 

Precisely!

 

 

[emi77]

I'd like to add my thanks to Cappie for that reflection. I have great trouble with digesting this passage peacefully. It challenges something deep within me, which I can't quite place! Its strange because I don't 'identify' with either Mary or Martha very strongly!

 

I know I shouldn't but I always feel so dreadfully sorry for Martha whenever I read that passage. I also love Our Lord's simplicity with His words, and I am certain that he said them with great love and that they were what both Martha and Mary needed to hear. I also believe that they have had great significance for countless others throughout the history of Faith.

 

But on a simply human level, I feel that Martha's contribution: her well meant but still flawed way of loving Jesus, whom she wished to serve in perhaps the only way she rightly 'knew', was rejected. 

 

Seeing as all our attempts at loving and serving God are flawed but acted with the only love we feel able to give to Our Lord at that moment in time, I always come away from this reading trusting that God's justice is far wiser than mine, but still deeply saddened.

 

Christ seems to reverse (the first shall be last) and even destroy earthly hierarchy (Who then can be saved? With God all things are possible) in so many other passages- indeed forgiving the most heinous 'crimes' of His time. Yet here, even if it is rightly so, Martha seems to have been chastised for simply trying to Love Him! 

 

Mary in the story had not loved Jesus in the 'best' way, merely the 'better' way. I have interpreted this to therefore have little to do with a hierarchy of service as a whole in the Mystical body, but I cannot help thinking that it still seems to have a more personal slant for Martha. I cannot articulate quite what that is, but it still troubles me greatly. 

 

I hope I have not offended anyone by saying these things. I'm not trying to discredit Jesus' teaching in this part of the Bible. As I said before I accept and welcome it, but it still greatly pains me. 

[BarbTherese]

Emi77

I'd like to add my thanks to Cappie for that reflection. I have great trouble with digesting this passage peacefully. It challenges something deep within me, which I can't quite place! Its strange because I don't 'identify' with either Mary or Martha very strongly!

I think that when Scripture challenges us, it is good and positive.  When this happens to me, I try to pray & read as much as I can about the passage that has challenged me - to reflect on it.

 

I know I shouldn't but I always feel so dreadfully sorry for Martha whenever I read that passage. I also love Our Lord's simplicity with His words, and I am certain that he said them with great love and that they were what both Martha and Mary needed to hear. I also believe that they have had great significance for countless others throughout the history of Faith.

Insight might be gained by reflecting on Martha's disposition, which the story tells us nothing about, except much is revealed when she complains about Mary.

If I am busy about the task at hand, I am concentrating on it.  It sounds as if Martha may have been reflecting instead on 'lazy' Mary....or other negative type reflections that caused her to react the way that she did.

But on a simply human level, I feel that Martha's contribution: her well meant but still flawed way of loving Jesus, whom she wished to serve in perhaps the only way she rightly 'knew', was rejected. 

Wow.  I don't see Martha's contribution as being rejected, rather her attitude only challenged.  Martha seems to think that the important thing is to get things done and prepare the meal.  Mary's attitude seems to be one of "listening" - or to be comfortably at Peace at the feet of Jesus.

 

Seeing as all our attempts at loving and serving God are flawed but acted with the only love we feel able to give to Our Lord at that moment in time, I always come away from this reading trusting that God's justice is far wiser than mine, but still deeply saddened.

How spot on was St Augustine "our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee".  There is always something to be concerned about in our service, whether we have some task or duty to complete, or whether at Prayer- perhaps Peace can be found in knowing that there always will be something to be concerned about in serving The Lord, whether Martha has the lead or Mary (the two being integrated).  To learn to live with a feeling of imperfection about our works. After all, there really would be something seriously wrong if we thought we had arrived at perfection.

 

Christ seems to reverse (the first shall be last) and even destroy earthly hierarchy (Who then can be saved? With God all things are possible) in so many other passages- indeed forgiving the most heinous 'crimes' of His time. Yet here, even if it is rightly so, Martha seems to have been chastised for simply trying to Love Him!

We each receive The Gospel in our "listening and hearing" the message differently.  Personally, I can't see Martha as trying to love Jesus.  Rather she is accusing of her sister (as her attitude in the whole scene) - and I reflect on Martha not concentrating on getting the meal at all, rather concentrating on her sister who is not doing what Martha is doing.  It is a rather common failing in our humanity to think that everyone has to be just like me to 'pass the grade'.

 

Mary in the story had not loved Jesus in the 'best' way, merely the 'better' way. I have interpreted this to therefore have little to do with a hierarchy of service as a whole in the Mystical body, but I cannot help thinking that it still seems to have a more personal slant for Martha. I cannot articulate quite what that is, but it still troubles me greatly. 

Some are at their most functional as a "Martha", others as a "Mary" - other still, a combination of the two, at least now and then.

"Seek after Peace and pursue it" is a great passage from Scripture.  We are not perfect and never will be this side of Heaven - that eternal "restlessness" that plagues us is something to learn to live with in Peace.  We are sinners, perhaps we are not sinning per se, but our faulted sinful nature is daily revealed in may faults and failings, imperfections.  We could have been better.  This is not something to castigate ourselves over, rather to rejoice and be happy, at Peace, in the wondrous Mercy of The Lord who embraces us just as we are.  It is never what I can do for Jesus, rather what He can do in me, if I will only let Him.  To "hear" the interior movements of The Holy Spirit, one needs to have a Peaceful disposition. 

 

I hope I have not offended anyone by saying these things. I'm not trying to discredit Jesus' teaching in this part of the Bible. As I said before I accept and welcome it, but it still greatly pains me. 

I hope that you will find some Peace with this anecdote from the Life of Jesus.  There have been some really good posts into this thread.  Mind you, there are passages in Scripture that can disturb me and I am most continually looking for the message in my disturbances - or possibly where I have got things wrong.  Personally, I don't experience this as a negative or disturbing Peace of Soul, rather signposts to growth.  I had a breakthrough the other day, not while at Prayer, but while walking to the bus stop when insight suddenly flooded in.  That was one insight out of say the six that keep occurring to me now and then.

 

God bless! :)

 

[AccountDeleted]

I'd like to add my thanks to Cappie for that reflection. I have great trouble with digesting this passage peacefully. It challenges something deep within me, which I can't quite place! Its strange because I don't 'identify' with either Mary or Martha very strongly!

 

I know I shouldn't but I always feel so dreadfully sorry for Martha whenever I read that passage. I also love Our Lord's simplicity with His words, and I am certain that he said them with great love and that they were what both Martha and Mary needed to hear. I also believe that they have had great significance for countless others throughout the history of Faith.

 

But on a simply human level, I feel that Martha's contribution: her well meant but still flawed way of loving Jesus, whom she wished to serve in perhaps the only way she rightly 'knew', was rejected. 

 

Seeing as all our attempts at loving and serving God are flawed but acted with the only love we feel able to give to Our Lord at that moment in time, I always come away from this reading trusting that God's justice is far wiser than mine, but still deeply saddened.

 

Christ seems to reverse (the first shall be last) and even destroy earthly hierarchy (Who then can be saved? With God all things are possible) in so many other passages- indeed forgiving the most heinous 'crimes' of His time. Yet here, even if it is rightly so, Martha seems to have been chastised for simply trying to Love Him!

 

Mary in the story had not loved Jesus in the 'best' way, merely the 'better' way. I have interpreted this to therefore have little to do with a hierarchy of service as a whole in the Mystical body, but I cannot help thinking that it still seems to have a more personal slant for Martha. I cannot articulate quite what that is, but it still troubles me greatly. 

 

I hope I have not offended anyone by saying these things. I'm not trying to discredit Jesus' teaching in this part of the Bible. As I said before I accept and welcome it, but it still greatly pains me. 

 

 

One of the reasons that I like Cappie's post is that it focuses on what Jesus what about to go through with His passion and death and His wanting to spend a little time with His friends first. Mary sits quietly with Him, listening to Him say that He won't be with them much longer, while Martha fusses about. Perhaps Mary couldn't help in the kitchen because she was overwhelmed at the thought of what was about to happen to Jesus. Perhaps Martha was overwhelmed too so found it hard to simply be still and sit with Jesus - and perhaps found some relief in activity.

 

I don't read into the story anything about their levels of love for Jesus or His love for them - both sisters loved him and each responded to the situation in their own way. What is consoling for one might be unbearably difficult for another. We see this in the way people respond differently to grief - one needing activity to keep their mind and body occupied, another needing solitude and stillness. Jesus said that Mary had chosen the better part, since He wasn't going to be with them much longer, it was much better to spend time with Him than worrying about other things. His comment could have been an attempt to get Martha to accept what was happening so she wouldn't miss this opportunity. This isn't a rejection of Martha at all - but a warning to her not to lose this opportunity that was in front of her.

 

Doesn't this happen in all of our lives when we put off the things of God for the things of this world? No one denies that we have to live and function in this world every day but Jesus spent time telling his disciples not to worry about the cares of this world, what they would wear, what they would eat. He told them to seek the Kingdom of God first. In the story of the seeds being sowed, He even talked about the plant being choked by the worries and cares of this world. Martha had God in human form sitting in her house. And He was about to be taken away from them all, tortured and killed. This was a big deal.

 

Martha wanted to serve Jesus, yes, and He let her do so in her own way - UNTIL she criticized Mary. Then He told her that there was something more important happening at that moment than what they would eat. If she hadn't rebuked Mary, Jesus would have had no reason to rebuke Martha. Jesus also rebuked Judas when he was critical about using the ointment to anoint Jesus.  Jesus rebuked Peter and the other Apostles many times - always to help them - always because He loved them.

 

This story could be seen as a lesson for all of us not to criticize each other for the way in which each of us responds to any situation. And no one knows how Martha responded to the rebuke, whether she fell at His feet in tears and told Him she just couldn't bear to hear what He was telling them about His death, or whether she went back to the kitchen and got even busier so she wouldn't have to think about it. This is such a small fragment of a story. Is it sad? Only if Martha didn't learn what Jesus was trying to teach her.

[BarbTherese]

Nunsense: If she hadn't rebuked Mary, Jesus would have had no reason to rebuke Martha.

 

 

Good point! 

[emi77]

BarbaraTherese and Nunsense: I'm having a bit of a busy week at the moment so sorry for not replying sooner and thank you both for your replies- they leave me mucht o pray over. Perhaps I was simply projecting my own worries and failings of perfectionism etc onto the story, which might explain why it stung a little. I also found this particularly helpful from you Nunsense, thank you:

 

'Martha wanted to serve Jesus, yes, and He let her do so in her own way - UNTIL she criticized Mary. Then He told her that there was something more important happening at that moment than what they would eat. If she hadn't rebuked Mary, Jesus would have had no reason to rebuke Martha.'

 

I never really thought about it so chronologically before!  :doh: 

 

I've been having great trouble recently in reflecting prayerfully on scripture, whereas it had been my 'easiest' way of prayer before, so this thread has been very fruitful for me!

Pax.