Norseman82 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 What would you do if your beloved comes to you the day before your wedding, in tears, confessing that she isn't actually a virgin because she made one mistake in her teenage years, and she was too afraid to tell you before? Would you drop her on the spot? Because that's what your attitude tells me you would do. As I get older, I see more and more people admit to lying about their virginity for mere appearances' sake, because we place so much emphasis on never ever screwing up and committing a sexual sin, despite having the Sacrament of Reconciliation. As an FYI, I've seen posts on CAF implying that if such lying is done to deceive someone into marrying him/her, it could be grounds for annullment on the basis of fraud or deceit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) (Havok, I'm still awaiting your response) He responded. Your scenario is ridiculous. You're comparing violent actions to consensual actions. It's not analogous. Pick a better scenario. And havok has a job. A job with a really weird schedule. Edited July 20, 2013 by Winchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 What difference does that make? (Havok, I'm awaiting your answer). Your not going to get an answer because its a stupid comparison. Find something that is comparable to someone choosing to have sex before marriage and then I will answer your question. I don't answer something that is in no way comparable. Just like I won't answer if I would allow Hitler to watch my child since we both know God would forgive him if he truly repented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 You're annoying, but we haven't banned you.... :hehe2: you must have missed discussion of the Winchester line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Does anyone here watch King of the Hill? The last several pages remind me of a specific episode of it. Hank, the main character, is derisive of his niece Luanne going through born-again virgin classes at church, to repent of one's previous sexual sins. However, his more compassionate wife, Peggy, insists they attend with Luanne. They're split into two groups, men and women. Then in the women's group comes a shocking revelation...Peggy told Hank she was a virgin, but she was not. Eventually Luanne brings this up during an argument at dinner, about how Peggy wasn't a virgin, but Hank loved her anyway. Hank yells at her to not besmirch the reputation of his wife, when Peggy admits that it is true. HHank doesn't know what to do. He loves his wife, but he feels so deeply betrayed. Eventually he goes to the baptism-like ceremony at the lake for Luanne, but instead, it's his wife who comes up from under the waters. In that moment, he realizes that to truly love someone, is to look past their mistakes, especially ones they have repented of. It's one of the few episodes where the headstrong Hank changes his mind. (As an aside...I just talked about a show made by the creator of Beavis and Butthead in a Catholic forum, talking about virginity, completely in context. It feels weird.) Sex offenders, being violent criminals, are not comparable to people who engage in voluntary, but sinful activity. While I find Norseman's analogy of non-virgin nonmarried people to sex offenders to be quite....different...not all sexual offenders are violent criminals. In many jurisdictions, such as the one I'm in, one can easily end up on a sex offender registry for entirely non-sexual actions. Like relieving oneself of urine in an alley (indecent exposure). I know you know that, I'm just pointing it out for those who don't possible, like you know, the person who made the analogy, because a few posts later you needle exactly what he's getting at: It's the difference between rape and consensual sex. You're comparing marrying someone who had sex outside of wedlock with putting a rapist in charge of your kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I am truly saying this with the least amount of sarcasm possible, because I mean it seriously - good luck finding any woman who is willing to be with you with your current attitude (not about virginity but the attitude of entitlement and superiority you so clearly communicated in this post). You are entitled to have a preference to marry a virgin but the comments above are really unsettling. Look at the words you use to describe a relationship with someone who has lost their virginity before marriage; "settling, questions about her motives, insulted, disrespected, dirty like everyone else, let her future spouse know that he is loved and that he is the only man worthy of such a special and powerful gift, disgraced, crushed as a human being, settle for someone like that..." Everything you wrote above is about YOU and what you want. No relationship works when it is only about one person and what they want. You didn't write much at all about your desire to truly love someone with the love of Christ for his Church (which did involve Jesus suffering a horrible death out of love for his sinful people, probably some non-virgins included there), to build a life with her and help her get to heaven, to love her without counting the cost of that love... This post reflects much more about your character than it does about the desire to marry a virgin. The issue that I see with it has nothing to do with the desire to marry a virgin and everything to do with personal immaturity and a complete misunderstanding of the gift of life and our human nature. I suggest that before you "see what you can get" at a youth group or online dating site that you see a therapist and try to deal with whatever is the root of this self-absorbed attitude. It will be more of a problem for your future marriage than a non-virgin will be. I'm not twisting your words either. I'm sure you didn't mean to come across the way you have but I have a feeling that these words really express how you truly think and feel so its worth the time to examine them and see if there is any truth to what I and others have pointed out based on your posts. Only you can work on you... you can't change your future spouse or anyone else but you can change yourself. I hope you can grow in love and holiness. Prayers, SM props, Sister Marie. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I like how He's so completely unimpressed with them. He starts doodling in the dirt (which is probably highly symbolic, but I just like the "This is what you bring me? Whatever" attitude displayed). Yep. People sin. Get high and mighty about it. Meanwhile, you're keeping the Kleenex industry in the black. Jesus the coolly dismissive. God is sarcastic. I have hope. I think your vacation was good for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 It's fine with me if you find my post rude or cranky, but I find the posters attitude to be far more offensive than my own response to it. I wish I could have had a nicer way to say what I believed this poster truly needed to hear but I couldn't think of one. His post was demeaning to women and to people in general but I didn't think it was because he was a bad person but because he has some attitudes that are not healthy and will be major problems if he does get married. Therapy is not a bad thing - its a good thing. It's for people who need to work on issues... so if you think I need therapy that's fine... we all have things we need to work on and I'm well aware that I am part of the sinful human species and I need just as much help as others. The result of therapy is, hopefully, to be able to live more fully and healthily. I don't see that as a rude thing to desire for anyone. Just because I think the poster needs some help because of his attitude doesn't mean that I don't have high regard for virginity and for the virtue of chastity. (Seeing as I have taken a vow of chastity, I certainly have a high regard for it) I just don't believe that physical virginity is the sum value of one's worth. It's because I see the high value in each person, regardless of their sins that I wrote this post. I don't think that the belief that we are called to care about more than physical intactness will harm those to whom I minister. props again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I never said that He didn't think she should marry - it's just that He didn't marry her. OK, let's apply this logic to something else. I don't know if you have children or not, but suppose you are looking for someone to babysit your children. If there were someone in your neighborhood who had a conviction for a sexual offense against a minor but has gone to confession and has been forgiven, would you hire that person as a babysitter, or would you hold the past against that person? comparing a woman losing her virginity to a pedophile? :blink: ummmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I think your vacation was good for you. It led to complete chaos on the forums. It took no less than three people to keep the forces of certain hygiene products from utterly destroying the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 It led to complete chaos on the forums. It took no less than three people to keep the forces of certain hygiene products from utterly destroying the place. i didn't say it was good for the phorums. :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 i didn't say it was good for the phorums. :| I understand. It's just that someone like me cannot be concerned only for himself. I was only sharing my perspective. I have a sacred duty, here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) Your not going to get an answer because its a stupid comparison. Find something that is comparable to someone choosing to have sex before marriage and then I will answer your question. I don't answer something that is in no way comparable. Just like I won't answer if I would allow Hitler to watch my child since we both know God would forgive him if he truly repented. Sounds to me like you've been caught doing that what you are accusing Polskieserce of doing and you don't want to own up to your own hypocrisy. If I'm wrong and you are not a hypocrite, please indicate that you would let a pedophile or Hitler babysit your children. Otherwise, please own up to your hypocrisy, apologize to Polskieserce, and get off his case. A refresher of Havok's own words: the point being is if Jesus is willing to forgive anyone of their sins and does not hold it against them then why should a mere human be more than willing to hold past sins against the person. Jesus didn't say only if your a virgin will I forgive your sins. He said anyone, anyone ask for forgiveness and I will forgive you of your sins. The OP seems to not follow this teaching when it comes to sex. Jesus teaches us to forgive others and do not hold the past against them. Unless your understanding is that you are to forgive them but hold past sins against them. Although that is not what Jesus taught but yet what the OP advocates. Edited July 20, 2013 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I understand. It's just that someone like me cannot be concerned only for himself. I was only sharing my perspective. I have a sacred duty, here. Winchester Line, and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) comparing a woman losing her virginity to a pedophile? :blink: ummmmmm Again, Havok's words (with substitutions to show how his words would apply to the other situations): the point being is if Jesus is willing to forgive anyone of their sins and does not hold it against them then why should a mere human be more than willing to hold past sins against the person. Jesus didn't say only if your a virgin not a pedophile or not Hitler will I forgive your sins. He said anyone, anyone ask for forgiveness and I will forgive you of your sins. The OP seems to not follow this teaching when it comes to sex pedophiles or Hitler. Jesus teaches us to forgive others and do not hold the past against them. Unless your understanding is that you are to forgive them but hold past sins against them. Although that is not what Jesus taught but yet what the OP advocates. Unless Havok would allow a pedophile or Hitler to babysit his kids, in which case I will stand corrected. Otherwise, Havok should get off Polskieserce's case. Edited July 20, 2013 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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