Finding Other Catholic Virgins?

[Apotheoun]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsVq5R_F6RA

[Selah]

After an unequivocal experience of the inefficacy of the subsisting federal government, you are called upon to deliberate

on a new Constitution for the United States of America. The

subject speaks its own importance; comprehending in its consequences nothing less than the existence of the union, the

safety and welfare of the parts of which it is composed, the

fate of an empire in many respects the most interesting in the

world. It has been frequently remarked that it seems to have

been reserved to the people of this country, by their conduct

and example, to decide the important question, whether societies of men are really capable or not of establishing good 

government from reflection and choice, or whether they are

forever destined to depend for their political constitutions on

accident and force. If there be any truth in the remark, the

crisis at which we are arrived may with propriety be regarded

as the era in which that decision is to be made; and a wrong

election of the part we shall act may, in this view, deserve to

be considered as the general misfortune of mankind. This

idea will add the inducements of philanthropy to those of

patriotism, to heighten the solicitude which all considerate

and good men must feel for the event. Happy will it be if our

choice should be directed by a judicious estimate of our true

interests, unperplexed and unbiased by considerations not

connected with the public good. But this is a thing more

ardently to be wished than seriously to be expected. The plan

offered to our deliberations affects too many particular interests, innovates upon too many local institutions, not to involve in its discussion a variety of objects foreign to its merits, and of views, passions and prejudices little favorable to

the discovery of truth.

Among the most formidable of the obstacles which the

new Constitution will have to encounter may readily be distinguished the obvious interest of a certain class of men in

every State to resist all changes which may hazard a diminution of the power, emolument, and consequence of the offices they hold under the State establishments; and the perverted ambition of another class of men, who will either hope

to aggrandize themselves by the confusions of their country,

or will flatter themselves with fairer prospects of elevation

from the subdivision of the empire into several partial confederacies than from its union under one government.

It is not, however, my design to dwell upon observations of

this nature. I am well aware that it would be disingenuous to

resolve indiscriminately the opposition of any set of men

(merely because their situations might subject them to suspicion) into interested or ambitious views. Candor will oblige

us to admit that even such men may be actuated by upright

intentions; and it cannot be doubted that much of the opposition which has made its appearance, or may hereafter make

its appearance, will spring from sources, blameless at least, if

not respectable—the honest errors of minds led astray by preconceived jealousies and fears. So numerous indeed and so

powerful are the causes which serve to give a false bias to the

judgment, that we, upon many occasions, see wise and good

men on the wrong as well as on the right side of questions of

the first magnitude to society. This circumstance, if duly attended to, would furnish a lesson of moderation to those

who are ever so much persuaded of their being in the right in

any controversy. And a further reason for caution, in this respect, might be drawn from the reflection that we are not

always sure that those who advocate the truth are influenced

by purer principles than their antagonists. Ambition, avarice,

personal animosity, party opposition, and many other motives not more laudable than these, are apt to operate as well

upon those who support as those who oppose the right side

of a question. Were there not even these inducements to

moderation, nothing could be more ill-judged than that intolerant spirit which has, at all times, characterized political

parties. For in politics, as in religion, it is equally absurd to

aim at making proselytes by fire and sword. Heresies in either

can rarely be cured by persecution.

And yet, however just these sentiments will be allowed to

be, we have already sufficient indications that it will happen

in this as in all former cases of great national discussion. A

torrent of angry and malignant passions will be let loose. To

judge from the conduct of the opposite parties, we shall be

led to conclude that they will mutually hope to evince the

justness of their opinions, and to increase the number of their

converts by the loudness of their declamations and the bitterness of their invectives. An enlightened zeal for the energy

and efficiency of government will be stigmatized as the offspring of a temper fond of despotic power and hostile to the

principles of liberty. An over-scrupulous jealousy of danger

to the rights of the people, which is more commonly the

fault of the head than of the heart, will be represented as mere

pretense and artifice, the stale bait for popularity at the expense of the public good. It will be forgotten, on the one

hand, that jealousy is the usual concomitant of love, and that

the noble enthusiasm of liberty is apt to be infected with a

spirit of narrow and illiberal distrust. On the other hand, it

will be equally forgotten that the vigor of government is essential to the security of liberty; that, in the contemplation of

a sound and well-informed judgment, their interest can never

be separated; and that a dangerous ambition more often lurks

behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people

than under the forbidden appearance of zeal for the firmness

and efficiency of government. History will teach us that the

former has been found a much more certain road to the introduction of despotism than the latter, and that of those

men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious

court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending

tyrants.

In the course of the preceding observations, I have had an

eye, my fellow-citizens, to putting you upon your guard against

all attempts, from whatever quarter, to influence your decision in a matter of the utmost moment to your welfare, by

any impressions other than those which may result from the

evidence of truth. You will, no doubt, at the same time, have

collected from the general scope of them, that they proceed

from a source not unfriendly to the new Constitution. Yes,

my countrymen, I own to you that, after having given it an

attentive consideration, I am clearly of opinion it is your interest to adopt it. I am convinced that this is the safest course

for your liberty, your dignity, and your happiness. I affect not

reserves which I do not feel. I will not amuse you with an

appearance of deliberation when I have decided. I frankly acknowledge to you my convictions, and I will freely lay before

you the reasons on which they are founded. The consciousness of good intentions disdains ambiguity. I shall not, however, multiply professions on this head. My motives must

remain in the depository of my own breast. My arguments

will be open to all, and may be judged of by all. They shall at

least be offered in a spirit which will not disgrace the cause of

truth.

I propose, in a series of papers, to discuss the following

interesting particulars:

The utility of the union to your political prosperity

The insufficiency of the present confederation to preserve that

union

The necessity of a government at least equally energetic with

the one proposed, to the attainment of this object

The conformity of the proposed constitution to the true principles of republican government

Its analogy to your own state constitution

and lastly, The additional security which its adoption will afford to the preservation of that species of government, to liberty,

and toproperty.

In the progress of this discussion I shall endeavor to give a

satisfactory answer to all the objections which shall have made

their appearance, that may seem to have any claim to your

attention.

It may perhaps be thought superfluous to offer arguments

to prove the utility of the union, a point, no doubt, deeplyengraved on the hearts of the great body of the people in

every State, and one, which it may be imagined, has no adversaries. But the fact is, that we already hear it whispered in the

private circles of those who oppose the new Constitution,

that the thirteen States are of too great extent for any general

system, and that we must of necessity resort to separate confederacies of distinct portions of the whole.* This doctrine

will, in all probability, be gradually propagated, till it has votaries enough to countenance an open avowal of it. For nothing can be more evident, to those who are able to take an

enlarged view of the subject, than the alternative of an adoption of the new Constitution or a dismemberment of the

Union. It will therefore be of use to begin by examining the

advantages of that Union, the certain evils, and the probable

dangers, to which every State will be exposed from its dissolution. This shall accordingly constitute the subject of my

next address.

Publius.

 

[Sister Marie]

Norseman... you still haven't answered me.  And I never even quoted from the Gospel anyway... I just wanted to remind the OP of the Gospel message of Jesus.  I am so happy his love, forgiveness, and mercy is so available to us all.  

 

Norseman, would you please pray for me?  I will pray for you as well.  I mean this with all sincerity regardless of your response to my posts.  I hope in christian charity we can pray for one another even if we don't agree.  

 

Thank you!  SM

[arfink]

What are you going to do, throw me down a well like the evil princes of Judah did to Jeremiah when he reminded them of some truths they did not like to hear?

 

[Norseman82]

I wasn't talking about sins... I was clearly talking about persons... so do you disagree that all of us are equal?

 

I wish you had specified that, I thought you were refering to something else (and with all the talk about "we're all sinners" and "it's about chastity,  not virginity", it did give me an opportunity to explain why the seriousness of fornication should not be watered down).  But anyway, being equal in dignity does not mean one is compatible or appropriate for someone else.  After all, Mother Theresa, Hitler, and John Wayne Gacy are all equal in dignity before God, but would you trust them equally with your kids (if you had kids or if you discern out, get married, and have kids)?

[Norseman82]

Norseman... you still haven't answered me.  

 

 

It would really help if you waited for someone to finish typing his response....

[Sister Marie]

How about praying for each other KNOWING that we don't agree?   :saint2:   I would like that very much.

 

Maybe, if you ever wanted, we could PM about some of this after it dies down.  I can tell that you have good intentions.  So do I.  I truly believe that God meets us there (and many other places! :) )

[ChristinaTherese]

Polski, I have some understanding of where you're coming from with the mental illness thing. I was abused by my sister, who has borderline personality disorder, as a child and have taken years to heal. It is from that perspective that I tell you, not that you're crazy or that your desire is unreasonable, but that there can be healing after abuse. This prejudice against anyone who has even the slightest mental problem is, as far as I can see, a scar of your abuse. I was also against such things as adopting children, because my sister was adopted, and could easily have fallen into a fear of anyone who had serious mental conditions. But I have had friends who were adopted, and see that not everyone has to turn out as badly as my sister did. The mom of some of our friends had borderline personality disorder, and our (Protestant) pastor's wife was manic-depressive, and I saw how they were able to get past their problems.

 

Polski, I do not wish to speak to you in condemnation. I understand your reasoning. But I would encourage you, as others have already done, to go to counselling. If you do, you will be more able to work through the problems that your mother left in her wake that you may not even know were there. It is hard when someone very close to you abuses you, but it is harder when you are not willing to reach out and ask for help.

 

The only other thing I would advise, if you choose to go to a counselor, is that you find one who is Catholic. I have had one who was Catholic and one who was Protestant, and greatly preferred the former. It may have been the time in my life, but I have known at least one other who felt the same, so I think it is a reasonable stipulation.

 

On a much lighter note, Polski, I have one question for you. What does your screen name mean? I know that "polski" has something to do with "Polish" in Polish, but what does the rest of it mean? Are you Polish, or do you have the name for another reason or using a different etymology than the one I guessed?

 

And now, some replies to other comments:

You know we won't be talking about this for long. We're getting pretty close to page 50, and that's the cut off.

 

Really? Are there thread limits now?

Selah and Era, yes there are thread limits. But the limit is 1,000 posts, so this could unfortunately keep going on for another 35 pages.

 

So...

 

I had the BEST licorice today

Nice! I'm glad you liked it, although I don't like licorice at all myself.

 

35 pages of useless arguing and none of the virgins in this thread are any closer to getting a wife...in fact, they've alienated any possible virgin who they might have found on Phatmass.

Actually, if Nihil, Brian, Moosey, or Missy has posted on here they're all closer to getting married because they're getting married sometime relatively soon, I think. (Sorry if I'm wrong, Missy and Brian.... But I know that Nihil and Moosey (I think that's her screen name) are getting married this next Saturday.)

[Sister Marie]

Polski, I have some understanding of where you're coming from with the mental illness thing. I was abused by my sister, who has borderline personality disorder, as a child and have taken years to heal. It is from that perspective that I tell you, not that you're crazy or that your desire is unreasonable, but that there can be healing after abuse. This prejudice against anyone who has even the slightest mental problem is, as far as I can see, a scar of your abuse. I was also against such things as adopting children, because my sister was adopted, and could easily have fallen into a fear of anyone who had serious mental conditions. But I have had friends who were adopted, and see that not everyone has to turn out as badly as my sister did. The mom of some of our friends had borderline personality disorder, and our (Protestant) pastor's wife was manic-depressive, and I saw how they were able to get past their problems.

 

Polski, I do not wish to speak to you in condemnation. I understand your reasoning. But I would encourage you, as others have already done, to go to counselling. If you do, you will be more able to work through the problems that your mother left in her wake that you may not even know were there. It is hard when someone very close to you abuses you, but it is harder when you are not willing to reach out and ask for help.

 

The only other thing I would advise, if you choose to go to a counselor, is that you find one who is Catholic. I have had one who was Catholic and one who was Protestant, and greatly preferred the former. It may have been the time in my life, but I have known at least one other who felt the same, so I think it is a reasonable stipulation.

 

On a much lighter note, Polski, I have one question for you. What does your screen name mean? I know that "polski" has something to do with "Polish" in Polish, but what does the rest of it mean? Are you Polish, or do you have the name for another reason or using a different etymology than the one I guessed?

 

And now, some replies to other comments:

 

Selah and Era, yes there are thread limits. But the limit is 1,000 posts, so this could unfortunately keep going on for another 35 pages.

 

Nice! I'm glad you liked it, although I don't like licorice at all myself.

 

Actually, if Nihil, Brian, Moosey, or Missy has posted on here they're all closer to getting married because they're getting married sometime relatively soon, I think. (Sorry if I'm wrong, Missy and Brian.... But I know that Nihil and Moosey (I think that's her screen name) are getting married this next Saturday.)

 

Thank you for such a loving and compassionate response Christina.  Prayers for you!

[Selah]

Selah and Era, yes there are thread limits. But the limit is 1,000 posts, so this could unfortunately keep going on for another 35 pages.

 

 

Well shoot. I guess you guys are going to be reading the Federalist Papers tonight. 

[ChristinaTherese]

Thank you for such a loving and compassionate response Christina.  Prayers for you!

Thanks for both the comment and the prayers, Sister! It wasn't too easy to write (or to read this thread at all) and I was hoping (and still am, since it's written to Polski and he probably hasn't seen it yet) that it wouldn't go unheeded....

[Sister Marie]

Norseman, how about we talk tomorrow... know I'm praying for you regardless.  Thank you for praying for me too!  :)  I hope all is well for you!  

 

SM

[CatherineM]

That's five minutes I'll never get back.

[HisChildForever]

Since I work with the mentally ill (including the MICA population)...I'm just disgusted by the comments made about them, as well as the "addict under the bridge." I've found SUCH joy working with schizophrenics and addicts alike, and my compassion for them is endless. This flippant attitude - this looking down at addicts as worthless human beings - I find it MORE disgusting than the OP's self-professed entitlement to a virgin bride.

 

Virgin girls are rarer and harder to get, making it a goal that's harder to achieve. 

 

The truth comes out. It's a game, a competition, a who-gets-there-first.

 

Let me tell you something. I fit all of your requirements EXCEPT that pesky anti-depressant one. And you want to know what? If for some ungodly reason we had met before my lovelysexyamazingwonderfulboyfriend and you began to go off on one of your virgin, "jungle fever," anti-mentally ill, entitlement rants? I'd thank my lucky stars the Good Lord "gave" me chronic anxiety.

 

Simple, because I already know that my desire to sleep with a virgin once in my life would not go away if I did marry a non-virgin.  It would eat away at the marriage slowly and it wouldn't last a lifetime.  There is no point in boarding a plane you know is going to crash.  It is going to take a virgin to make me feel truly satisfied with the marriage.

 

So you marry the non-virgin, get divorced x years later, and waltz back into the dating world looking for a virgin. Even though you're now a non-virgin. Still with those demands, eh.

[Tufsoles]

35 pages of useless arguing and none of the virgins in this thread are any closer to getting a wife...in fact, they've alienated any possible virgin who they might have found on Phatmass.

 

You can say that again. I dare you, Era!