Another Obscure O.t. Verse

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Pax domini bretheren...

Sorry i don't remember verse or chapter or even which book in the holy bible that i read this in but it says something along these lines, " I see you in the temple in the middle of the night bowing down to the statues in the temple." It may have said 'praying to' or 'worshiping the statues.' and 'late at night.' and/or ' i see your priests.' Just use your e bible and type in 'statues' and it should come up in the O.T. The sense i got from this verse when i read it years ago was not so good. God was not happy at this.

 

GodblesS.

 

Onward christian souls.

Jesus is LORD.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Don't get me wrong, i hope to remain a chriistian member of the holy catholic church for my whole life(i need the holy sacraments[all 7]) Even if 99% of the church went heretic, Jesus will still come to the faithful in the most precious body and blood and receive absolution in the sacrament of confession, even if the priest be a heretic. I'm not saying it is a heresy to ask for the intercession of the holy mother,saints and angels, but this verse hints at something more sinister possibly.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

To be honest when i first started my christian journey i used to bow down to a statue of the holy mother and offer up a rosary, as soon as i read this verse i don't do that anymore,though i continue to offer up the mysteries of the holy rosary for the holy mothers prayers and ask the saints to interceed for  myself and others too.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I guess also to be noted is the verse does not strictly say "there are to be no statues in the holy temple." 

[BarbTherese]

To be honest when i first started my christian journey i used to bow down to a statue of the holy mother and offer up a rosary, as soon as i read this verse i don't do that anymore,though i continue to offer up the mysteries of the holy rosary for the holy mothers prayers and ask the saints to interceed for  myself and others too.

 

 

I wouldn't be too concerned.  It is from the heart that we sin and bowing before a statue of Our Lady and saying a Rosary is a mark of respect for Our Lady in Heaven - not worshipping the statue per se as was done in pagan times when they believed that the statue itself WAS the god.  We certainly do not believe that our statues are anything but statues - present just to remind us of Jesus, Our Lady and the saints truly present in Heaven.   Our statues and images in the main are simply artist's imaginary representations of realities.  Some statues are after some apparition or vision perhaps.

 

As I read things, Tab :)   Couldn't find your OT verse. :)

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

As far as i'm aware Barbara the pagans didn't think there statues of gods where gods but where used to invoke the gods, in greek and roman cultures as far as i'm aware. And i know the statues in the holy catholic church are there to help us stay focused on God and to lead holy lives. And i'm pretty sure that the passage is there in the O.T. my wording is just probably a bit off. Anyhow of course i see that our statues in the churches are not of a multi God system and that we have but one God the holy trinity. I still don't understand nore do i really wan't to understand prostrating myself in worship before any statue except possibly a crucifix.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Unsure about bowing to a crucifix either as to whether jesus is present in the dead body, possibly a statue of the sacred heart. And talking of the crucifix, does anyone know if Jesus is present in his body after death before the resurrection, or is it just an ordinary body till after the resurrection. I kind of get that the body of christ on the cross is a symbol of hope for the resurrection and the second coming. But than we have the whole omnipotent of God so he could indeed have remained in his dead body while also being in sheol. Any bright ideas or actual church teachings on the matter.

[BarbTherese]

Unsure about bowing to a crucifix either as to whether jesus is present in the dead body, possibly a statue of the sacred heart. And talking of the crucifix, does anyone know if Jesus is present in his body after death before the resurrection, or is it just an ordinary body till after the resurrection. I kind of get that the body of christ on the cross is a symbol of hope for the resurrection and the second coming. But than we have the whole omnipotent of God so he could indeed have remained in his dead body while also being in sheol. Any bright ideas or actual church teachings on the matter.

 

Jesus was always truly man and Truly God.  It is a great mystery, but when Jesus died on The Cross, His Godhead did not.  And yet He truly died as we do in His Humanity.  And some gesture of respect before Jesus dead in His Humanity on The Cross is a gesture of thankfulness for what His Death effected i.e. our salvation, opening Heaven for us including those who died before the crucifixion in God's friendship .

As far as i'm aware Barbara the pagans didn't think there statues of gods where gods but where used to invoke the gods, in greek and roman cultures as far as i'm aware. And i know the statues in the holy catholic church are there to help us stay focused on God and to lead holy lives. And i'm pretty sure that the passage is there in the O.T. my wording is just probably a bit off. Anyhow of course i see that our statues in the churches are not of a multi God system and that we have but one God the holy trinity. I still don't understand nore do i really wan't to understand prostrating myself in worship before any statue except possibly a crucifix.

 

You know more about pagan thinking than I, Tab!  I am confident your OT passage is there too, I just couldn't find it.  If one feels uncomfortable bowing before a statue or crucifix, or any other overt gesture of respect, ok not to go there - while others might feel comfortable about it.  It is much like praying The Rosary before a statue of Mary or lighting a candle before her statue - we all realize that the statue is not Mary herself nor needed to invoke her.  It is a reminder that Our Lady is indeed hearing our prayers.  We humans are structured by God to be creatures of our senses and therefore our senses have an important part to play in respect, adoration and spirituality generally - doubtless statues and artistic images are a reminded to us of spiritual realities.  St Teresa of Avila, one of our greatest mystics and saints, found an artist's image of the Suffering Face of Jesus a turning point in her own journey.

Edited July 16, 2013 by BarbaraTherese

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I'm glad where talking about this, because it got me thinking upon the verse and how it may possibly represent those scattered outside of israel in the pagan nationsat that time, and these people turning to false idols for whatever reason. I took the verse as being future prophetic not a here and now statement. If we weren't talking this through i wouldn't have been thinking it out. But also by the way, i don't pray to mary, i ask her to pray for me.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[BarbTherese]

I'm glad where talking about this, because it got me thinking upon the verse and how it may possibly represent those scattered outside of israel in the pagan nationsat that time, and these people turning to false idols for whatever reason. I took the verse as being future prophetic not a here and now statement. If we weren't talking this through i wouldn't have been thinking it out. But also by the way, i don't pray to mary, i ask her to pray for me.

 

Thanks for the insight Tab.  It is very true that many of the Israelites living in a pagan culture turned to worshipping idols.  This does illustrate for us just how careful we need to be living in secular cultures, if we do - how easily it is to turn to secular type thinking and often this can happen without one realizing it ............. unless one has a firm grasp on Catholic teaching and spirituality.

 

Undoubtedly, our prayers to Mary are requesting her prayers for us since "pray" can also mean to make an earnest request.  We pray to Our Lady to pray or intercede for us and if we look at the more commonly known prayers to Mary, they all are a request to her to pray for us.   

 

Non Catholics can often make the mistakes that we do worship statues, images etc. and that Our Lady and the saints can work miracles or do good on their own behalf.  All that is good has God for its source and origin and only God can work miracles.  Most Catholics do realize this I would hope. 

 

Tab, I think that you are a very good Catholic indeed with a Faith seeking to understand wherever it can - and nothing wrongful about that.  I try to be the same. 

Edited July 17, 2013 by BarbaraTherese