Nation Throws Hands Up, Tells Black Teenagers To Do Their Best Out The

[4588686]

If your head were being smashed into the pavement would you pull the trigger?

 
I'd probably protect my head.  I don't think that race played a role in Zimmerman's decision to pull the trigger.  I think he panicked.  I think that race played a big factor in Zimmerman's visceral reaction to seeing Trayvon walking around.  Unless you think that Zimmerman just immediately became frustrated and labeled a 'punk' and an 'arse portal' and a 'goon' every individual he saw walking around who he didn't recognize.

[4588686]

Facts are irrelevant.

 

 

Whether or not you consider 29 to be middle age is irreverent.  I consider 30 the beginning of middle agedom.  If Chestertonian disagrees I don't think it has any substantive bearing on the discussion. 

[tinytherese]

Teenagers in general are usually considered suspicious by cops.

 

One of my high school classmates who had previously lived in another state before transfering to my high school told some of us that she and her friends who hung around a public park at least weekly in the same spot would be frisked by the police everytime they went despite that they never had anything out of the ordinary on their person.

[4588686]

Teenagers in general are usually considered suspicious by cops.

 

One of my high school classmates who had previously lived in another state before transfering to my high school told some of us that she and her friends who hung around a public park at least weekly in the same spot would be frisked by the police everytime they went despite that they never had anything out of the ordinary on their person.

'

Right.  And if we looking at the national statistics for teens and young adults who are subject to traffic stops, stop and frisk programs et cetera we would find rates of white teens being stopped vs black teens being stopped roughly in proportion to there percentage of the population, right?

 

Which of the apologists here for equal opportunity harassment wants to take that bet?  Not one of you would because deep down, unless your head is totally in the sand, everybody here knows that these really feeble attempts at equivocation are utter horsepoo

[Chestertonian]

I'd probably protect my head. I don't think that race played a role in Zimmerman's decision to pull the trigger. I think he panicked. I think that race played a big factor in Zimmerman's visceral reaction to seeing Trayvon walking around. Unless you think that Zimmerman just immediately became frustrated and labeled a 'punk' and an 'arse portal' and a 'goon' every individual he saw walking around who he didn't recognize.

There's no evidence I know of that would suggest he's racist, but there's quite a bit of evidence that suggests he isn't. Edited July 16, 2013 by Chestertonian

[ardillacid]

I'd probably protect my head.  I don't think that race played a role in Zimmerman's decision to pull the trigger.  I think he panicked.  I think that race played a big factor in Zimmerman's visceral reaction to seeing Trayvon walking around.  Unless you think that Zimmerman just immediately became frustrated and labeled a 'punk' and an 'arse portal' and a 'goon' every individual he saw walking around who he didn't recognize.  

I don't know what Zimmerman saw or felt or thought or what motivated him, unlike 99% of the people on the internet. 

 

Here's what I do know. There's a difference between breaking someone's nose vs. knocking someone down, climbing on top, and bashing their head into the concrete repeatedly. I don't think their is a single honest person who can claim they wouldn't have pulled the trigger at that point. 

[ardillacid]

Whether or not you consider 29 to be middle age is irreverent.  I consider 30 the beginning of middle agedom.  If Chestertonian disagrees I don't think it has any substantive bearing on the discussion. 

 

In general, I am irreverent, but that is irrelevant. 

[4588686]

There's no evidence I know of that would suggests he's racist

 

 

There is very little evidence.  Aside from that whole follow a black kid walking home from getting skittles and tea incident.  I don't think that Zimmerman is an avowed, vehement racist.  But a lot of people in this country harbor a disproportionate suspicion that young black men are up to no good and Zimmerman certainly seems to be one of them.  A lot of people do and we all have our daemons.  I harbor an unfair suspicion of Roma people.  And that's my hangup.  And that's something I struggle with.  And it's my personal struggle.  Until I decide to stalk a young Roman man and he ends up dead because of my racism.  

 

I don't think that Zimmerman is an evil man.  And I don't think his being a racist is his greatest sin.  But a kid is dead and, wherever his legal liability, and apparently there is non, I think he's morally responsible for it.  If I were a 17 year old and a 30 year old man followed my in an SUV and then on foot I'd be seriously concerned too and I'd consider attacking before I was attacked as well.  

[Era Might]

I don't know what Zimmerman saw or felt or thought or what motivated him, unlike 99% of the people on the internet. 

 

Here's what I do know. There's a difference between breaking someone's nose vs. knocking someone down, climbing on top, and bashing their head into the concrete repeatedly. I don't think their is a single honest person who can claim they wouldn't have pulled the trigger at that point. 

 

I wouldn't be out with a gun in the first place, but regardless, I can't imagine shooting someone during a fist fight, especially in the context of a stranger in the street who I came into a confrontation with. Completely different mindset from someone approaching you with a weapon. Won't speak for Zimmerman, but just responding to your question.

 

Also, that argument can work either way: if someone has a right to carry a gun and kill someone, they have a right to use concrete to kill someone.

[4588686]

I don't know what Zimmerman saw or felt or thought or what motivated him, unlike 99% of the people on the internet. 

 

Here's what I do know. There's a difference between breaking someone's nose vs. knocking someone down, climbing on top, and bashing their head into the concrete repeatedly. I don't think their is a single honest person who can claim they wouldn't have pulled the trigger at that point. 

 

 

That depends on why they were slamming my head into the ground.  And yes, if I had a gun and somebody were bashing my head into the concrete I'd consider pulling the trigger.  On the other hand, if I was a 17 year old and some random older guy in an SUV started following me and the pursued me on foot I'd seriously consider attacking him before I was attacked.  

[KnightofChrist]

I wouldn't be out with a gun in the first place, but regardless, I can't imagine shooting someone during a fist fight, especially in the context of a stranger in the street who I came into a confrontation with. Completely different mindset from someone approaching you with a weapon. Won't speak for Zimmerman, but just responding to your question.

 

Also, that argument can work either way: if someone has a right to carry a gun and kill someone, they have a right to use concrete to kill someone.

 

So admitedly it wasn't a fist fight, it was a use concrete against someones head to kill someone that ended with a gun shot fight?

 

I think it's noble you wouldn't fight back if you were being beat to death, but I hope you can respect why others may not be so noble.

 

[ardillacid]

That depends on why they were slamming my head into the ground.  And yes, if I had a gun and somebody were bashing my head into the concrete I'd consider pulling the trigger.  

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

On the other hand, if I was a 17 year old and some random older guy in an SUV started following me and the pursued me on foot I'd seriously consider attacking him before I was attacked.  

 

Okay, so how far would you take that attack? Let's say you preemptively punch him in the face, breaking his nose. He falls to the ground. What's your next move? 

[4588686]

So admitedly it wasn't a fist fight, it was a use concrete against someones head to kill someone that ended with a gun shot fight?

 

I think it's noble you wouldn't fight back if you were being beat to death, but I hope you can respect why others may not be so noble.

 

 

He wasn't being beaten to death.  His only serious injury was a broken nose.

[Era Might]

So admitedly it wasn't a fist fight, it was a use concrete against someones head to kill someone that ended with a gun shot fight?

 

I think it's noble you wouldn't fight back if you were being beat to death, but I hope you can respect why others may not be so noble.

 

It has nothing to do with being noble, but being a man. I don't assume because I'm losing a fight that I'm going to die. I don't consider gun use particularly manly...it would have to be very direct circumstances for me to consider killing a person.

 

As far as I concrete, I have no idea what happened, I didn't follow this case. Just saying that if he was getting his head pounded against concrete, that doesn't mean he was a victim...if using a gun to defend yourself is acceptable, then so is using concrete. If Trayvon did not have a gun, maybe he needed the concrete...what would you do if someone had a gun and you didn't? One can just as easily put the gun in the position of malice in that situation.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Era Might

[KnightofChrist]

That depends on why they were slamming my head into the ground.  And yes, if I had a gun and somebody were bashing my head into the concrete I'd consider pulling the trigger.  On the other hand, if I was a 17 year old and some random older guy in an SUV started following me and the pursued me on foot I'd seriously consider attacking him before I was attacked.

 

Bush Doctrine doesn't work out too well in the end, I'd run before I just jumped somebody.